RUHLE."
RUHLE." THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NOW
THREATENING BRAND-NEW ACTION ON
THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
EARLIER SECRETARY KIRSTJEN
NIELSEN ANNOUNCED THE DEPARTMENT
OF HOMELAND SECURITY WILL BE
DEPLOYING MORE AGENTS TO COMBAT
THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS THERE.
MEANWHILE PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS
HE MIGHT CLOSE THE BORDER
ENTIRELY AFTER AN INFLUX OF
MIGRANTS HAVE SHOWN UP
REQUESTING ASYLUM HERE IN THE
UNITED STATES, WHICH WE HAVE TO
REMIND PEOPLE, IS LEGAL.
>> THEY’RE ASYLUM SEEKERS.
LAST MONTH THERE WERE MORE THAN
100,000 APPREHENSIONS WITH
MIGRANTS ON THE BORDERS, THAT’S
ACCORDING TO U.S. CUSTOMS AND
BORDER PROTECTION.
BORDER PROTECTION. AND NOW THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO
CUT OFF AID TO CENTRAL AMERICA.
THIS IS AID DESIGNED TO RESTORE
LAW AND ORDER IN COUNTRIES THAT
ARE OVERRUN BY VIOLENCE AND
CORRUPTION WHICH IS WHY A LOT OF
PEOPLE WANT TO LEAVE THEM.
HERE IS WHAT HIS ACTING CHIEF OF
STAFF HAD TO SAY IN DEFENSE OF
THAT.
THAT. >> IF WE’RE GOING TO GIVE THESE
COUNTRIES HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS, WE WOULD LIKE THEM
TO DO MORE.
THAT IS NOT AN UNREASONABLE
POSITION.
POSITION. WE COULD PREVENT A LOT OF WHAT’S
HAPPENING ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER
BY PREVENTING PEOPLE TO MOVE
INTO --
INTO -- >> THAT’S WHAT THE MONEY DOES,
IT MAKES THOSE COUNTRIES MORE
STABLE.
STABLE. THIS IS NOT ACCORDING TO ME.
THIS IS ACCORDING TO EXPERTS IN
YOUR OWN ADMINISTRATION.
>> LOOK, CAREER STAFFERS, BUT
LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A
SECOND.
SECOND. IF IT’S WORKING SO WELL, WHY ARE
THE PEOPLE STILL COMING?
>> BUT USAID HAS WORKING TOWARDS
MAKING IMPROVEMENTS.
MAKING IMPROVEMENTS. AND THE OWN STATE DEPARTMENT HAS
THE NUMBERS TO PROVE IT.
THE MOVE TO END PROGRAMS FOR
HONDURAS, EL SALVADOR, AND
GUATEMALA WOULD EFFECT NEARLY
$500 MILLION AND MILLIONS LEFT
FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.
THE MISSION IS TO PROVIDE
INVESTMENT AND PARTNERSHIP FROM
THE UNITED ATES TO PROMOTE
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND
SECURITY FOR CITIZENS OF THE
REGION.
REGION. MAKE IT SAFER AND BETTER SO THEY
WANT TO STAY AND THRIVE IN THOSE
COUNTRIES.
COUNTRIES. THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO SLASH
THAT AID SO THAT THE CENTRAL
AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS WILL STOP
THE MIGRATION OF REFUGEES BUT
MANY CRITICS SAY THAT AID DETERS
IMMIGRATIONS AND IT WILL HELP
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. EVEN JOHN KELLY, SAID IT
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. >> IF WE COULD IMPROVE THE
CONDITION OF HONDURANS, CENTRAL
AMERICANS, WE CAN DO AN AWFUL
LOT TO PROTECT THE SOUTHWEST
BORDER.
BORDER. >> ONE GOVERNMENT REPORT
CONDUCTED IN 2018 SUGGESTS THAT
VIOLENCE IN THE NORTHERN
TRIANGLE WAS ACTUALLY BEGINNING
TO SHOW SIGNS OF IMPROVEMENT
PARTICULARLY IN EL SALVADOR AND
HONDURAS.
HONDURAS. THAT YEAR SAW A TOTAL AID
PACKAGE OF $655 MILLION.
THE IMPACT OF THAT INVESTMENT IN
AGRICULTURAL IN HONDURAS ALONE
HELPED LIFT 680,000 PEOPLE OUT
OF POVERTY.
OF POVERTY. FUNDS SENT TO GUATEMALA BOOSTED
AGRICULTURAL PROGRAMMING AS WELL
WHICH HELPED INCREASE RURAL
FARMING SALES BY MORE THAN 50%.
IT CREATED 20,000 JOBS.
LET’S LET’S GO TO EL SALVADOR.
40% OF AID FOCUSED ON SECURITY
AND RULE OF LAW.
ON TOP OF THAT, THE FUNDING GAVE
33,000 HOUSEHOLDS ACCESS TO
ELECTRICITY AND PUT, LISTEN TO
ME HERE, 2,250 GIRLS IN SCHOOL.
THAT IS NOT CHARITY.
>> IT’S SMART POLICY.
JOINING US NOW NBC NATIONAL
SECURITY AND JUSTICE REPORTER.
LET’S PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE,
FOLKS WHERE IN THESE COUNTRIES
FOR VERY LITTLE.
A GOOD WAGE IS $10 A DAY.
THERE’S RISK FROM DRUG GANGS,
SEXUAL ASSAULT, THEY END UP
COMING TO AMERICA WHERE THEY CAN
WORK AS AGRICULTURAL WORKERS FOR
A HUNDRED OR $150 A DAY.
THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THAT IS
TO CHANGE THE ECONOMICS OF THAT
TO MAKE IT SAFER FOR THEM TO
STAY WHERE THEY CAN EARN MORE.
>> AND THAT’S BEEN STANDARD
POLICY FROM ADMINISTRATIONS
GOING BACK DOZENS OF YEARS.
YOU CAN EVEN HEAR IT IN THE
PRESIDENT’S RHETORIC WHEN HE
TALKS ABOUT HOW HIS OWN
SUCCESSFUL ECONOMY HAS DRAWN ALL
THESE PEOPLE HERE.
IT’S AN ADMISSION TO THE ECONOMY
THOSE COUNTRIES ISN’T VERY GOOD.
I THINK WHAT’S CLEAR TODAY,
WE’RE MIDDAY ON MONDAY, IS IT’S
CLEAR THAT PRESIDENT DONALD
TRUMP WANTS THE FOCUS TO BE ON
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. HE’LL BE VISITING LATER THIS
WEEK.
WEEK. WHAT ISN’T CLEAR IS WHETHER OR
NOT HE IS SERIOUS ABOUT SHUTTING
IT DOWN, ABOUT SEALING THE
BORDER, WHETHER OR NOT HE’S
BLUFFING OR WHETHER OR NOT HE’S
ACTUALLY PLANNING FOR IT.
AND YOU CAN MAKE A CASE ON BOTH
SIDES OF THE LEDGER.
ON THE PLANNING SIDE, PATRICK
SHANAHAN WAS ASKED ABILITY IT
EARLIER TODAY.
EARLIER TODAY. HE SAID, NOT YET, NOT YET ARE
U.S. TROOPS DOWN THERE SEALING
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. BUT HE HASN’T SPOKEN TO KIRSTJEN
NIELSEN YET.
NIELSEN YET. BUT ON THIS IDEA OF WHAT IT
WOULD DO IN THE ECONOMY, IT’S
CLEAR THAT THEY HAVEN’T COSTED
THIS ALL OUT ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD
COST THE ECONOMY IF YOU SHUTDOWN
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. FOR A PRESIDENT THAT TOUTS THE
ECONOMY, THE STOCK MARKET, LOOKS
AT INDISES ALL THE TIME, IT’S
CLEAR THAT SHUTTING DOWN THAT
BORDER WOULD HAVE AN ECONOMIC
IMPACT AND IT WOULD BE A
DIFFICULT CASE FOR HIM TO MAKE
THAT HIS PRESIDENCY IS GOING TO
BE TIED UP -- ESPECIALLY HEADING
INTO THE RE-ELECTION, WHAT IT
WOULD DO TO THE ECONOMY.
>> SHUT DOWN THE BORDER, KICK
THEM OUT, THOSE ARE THINGS WE
HEAR THE PRESIDENT SAY ALL THE
TIME.
TIME. BUT TAKE US LOCAL.
YOU HAVE SPENT A TON OF TIME ON
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. WHEN I WAS THERE, I SPOKE TO THE
MAYOR OF McALLEN, TEXAS, ABOUT
THE MIGRANT CRISIS AND HERE’S
WHAT HE SAID.
>> WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP
PRESENTED THE IDEA OF THE BORDER
WALL, HOW DID THAT SIT WITH YOU
AND THIS COMMUNITY?
>> I THINK JUST THE BORDER WALL
ITSELF, WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH
THAT FOR LANDOWNER RIGHTS,
SPLITTING PARKS IN HALF, I DON’T
THINK IT AFFECTED OUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH MEXICO UNTIL
HE SAID WE’RE GOING TO PAY FOR
IT.
IT. THEN WE HAD A BACKLASH OF NOT
ONLY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE WALL
WAS GOING TO DO TO YOUR
COMMUNITY, BUT RESENTMENT OF
MEXICO, WE’RE VERY STRONG ON
TOURISM.
TOURISM. >> SO HE’S TALKING SPECIFICALLY
ABOUT THE NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. HE WENT ON TO SAY, IF WE’VE GOT
MONEY TO SPEND IT ON A WALL,
SPEND IT ON AID TO THOSE
COUNTRIES.
COUNTRIES. WHEN AID WENT DOWN, THAT’S WHEN
CRIME AND VIOLENCE WENT UP.
>> THAT’S RIGHT, STEPHANIE.
FOR PEOPLE ON THE BORDER, THE
IMMIGRATION ISSUE IS VERY
NUANCED.
NUANCED. THEY GET A LOT OF THEIR COMMERCE
FROM PEOPLE COMING FROM MEXICO
EVERY DAY TO GO TO SCHOOL, TO
WORK TO USE THEIR BUSINESSES AND
THIS COMMERCE GOES BACK AND
FORTH ALL DAY LONG.
TO SHUT THOSE DOWN WOULD HAMPER
THESE TOWNS MORE SO YOU COULD
ARGUE, THAN THE IMMIGRANTS WHO
ARE COMING INTO THESE TOWNS NOW.
AS WE KNOW, IMMIGRATION IS
REALLY A MATTER OF PUSH AND PULL
FACTORS.
FACTORS. I’M GLAD YOU REFERENCED GENERAL
KELLY, BECAUSE WHEN HE CAME IN
AS SECRETARY OF HOMELAND
SECURITY HE TALKED ABOUT HOW
THEY WANTED TO DO MORE TO INVEST
IN CENTRAL AMERICA, TO DRIVE
DOWN WHAT THEY CALL THE PUSH
FACTORS T VIOLENCE, THE
POVERTIES, THE REASONS PEOPLE
LEAVE.
LEAVE. WE’VE SEEN THEY’RE FOCUSING MORE
ON THE PULL FACTORS.
THEY THINK THESE ARE REASONS WHY
PEOPLE COME HERE TO EXPLOIT OUR
IMMIGRATION LOOPHOLES AND THEY
WANT TO CRACK DOWN ON PEOPLE
SEEKING ASYLUM.
SEEKING ASYLUM. THAT SURGE ON THE BORDER THAT
WE’RE SEEING TODAY, THOSE PEOPLE
ARE GOING THERE TO MAKE IT
HARDER FOR ASYLUM SEEKERS.
SECRETARY NIELSEN SAYS THEY WILL
BE EXPANDING THEIR POLICY WHERE
THEY TURN BACK ASYLUM SEEKERS
AND HAVE THEM WAIT IN MEXICO.
THEY’RE NOT FROM MEXICO.
THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE CENTRAL
AMERICAN FAMILIES AND HAVE THEM
WAIT IN THESE TOWNS UNTIL THEY
CAN COME TO THE UNITED STATES.
THAT’S A PRACTICAL THING, WE’RE
SEEING, SHAE WANTS HUNDREDS MORE
TO BE TURNED AROUND IN A DAY.
PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE INVOLVED
WITH THE OPERATIONAL PART OF
THAT SAY THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO
DO THAT AT THIS POINT BUT THEY
RESERVE THE RIGHT TO SHUT DOWN
PARTS OF THE BORDER FOR SHORT
PERIODS OF TIME.
WE DID SEE SOME OF THAT RIGHT
AROUND THE TIME OF THE HONDURAN
CARAVAN.
CARAVAN. PEOPLE WERE WORRIED ABOUT BEING
ABLE TO DO BUSINESS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE KNOW THAT THE AID CAN HELP
THOSE CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES
IN THE WAY THAT WE’VE LAID OUT.
THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT AID
GETS FUNNELED TO CORRUPT LEADERS
OR LEGITIMATIZES GANGS AND WE
KEEP GIVING MONEY AND THINGS
DON’T GET BETTER.
>> THERE’S NO CONSENSUS IN THE
DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY ON HOW YOU
ALLEVIATE POVERTY IN THE
DEVELOPING WORLD.
DEVELOPING WORLD. JUST A FEW BLOCKS DOWN FROM
HERE, THERE’S THE WORLD BANK,
THEY SPEND TIME AND EFFORT ON
HAVING PROGRAMS TO BUILD AND
LIFT THESE ECONOMIES UP.
WITH A CONSENSUS HAS BEEN, IS
YOU NEED TO DO MORE TRADE, MORE
COMMERCE, AND THAT’S THE WAY TO
REALLY ENSURE THAT THESE
ECONOMIES ARE SUSTAINABLE AND
VIBRANT.
VIBRANT. WHAT THERE ISN’T A LOT OF TALK
ABOUT IS SUDDENLY PULLING OUT
THE RUG, HAVING PROGRAMS THAT
ARE IN PLACE THERE, THINGS THAT
YOUR OWN ADMINISTRATION, YOUR
OWN VICE PRESIDENT HAS ADVOCATED
FOR AND SAYING, THEY SIMPLY
AREN’T WORKING, LET’S PULL IT
NOW.
NOW. THE MICK MULVANEY ARGUMENT THAT
HE MADE THERE IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT REALLY IS RELEVANT OR
APPROPRIATE FOR THIS
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION. HE CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT
AID DOESN’T WORK.
BUT TO TRY TO TIE IT INTO SO
ABRUPTLY WITH WHAT’S HAPPENING
HERE, IT DOESN’T SEEM TO BE
ENTIRELY CONSISTENT.
ENTIRELY CONSISTENT. >> WE HAVE TO REMIND OUR
AUDIENCE, ONE OF THE REASONS YOU
SEE THIS SURGE FROM PEOPLE IN
THESE CAVERNS IS BECAUSE THEY
FEAR THE BORDER WILL BE CLOSED,
THAT THE WALL WILL BE BUILT,
THAT WE’RE GOING TO ALLOW LESS