BRIAN: JENNIFER GRIFFIN AT THE
PENTAGON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
HERE NOW, JOHN VENABLE, RETIRED
F-16 PILOT.
JOHN, THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.
YOU’RE A PILOT.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS SAYING
CLOSE SKIES, GIVE US A NO-FLY
ZONE.
THIS IS YOUR THING, BUT YOU ARE
ADD PLANTLY OPPOSED TO THAT. --
ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO THAT.
>> BRIAN, IT’S GREAT TO BE WITH
YOU.
NO-FLY ZONES ARE BREAD AND
BUTTER FOR THE LAST 25, 30
YEARS.
WE’VE BEEN ABLE TO DOMINATE THE
SKIES OVER IRAQ, SYRIA A,
AFGHANISTAN AND LIBYA MOSTLY
BECAUSE WE, WE WERE FIGHTING A
THIRD WORLD ADVERSARY WITH VERY
OLD AND DATED EQUIPMENT.
WHEN WE FIRST MOVED INTO IRAQ IN
1991, IT WAS A CHALLENGE FOR US
INITIALLY.
AND WE ACTUALLY PREVAILED
RELATIVELY RAPIDLY BECAUSE OF
OUR OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER.
THAT’S DIFFERENT OVER SKIES OF
UKRAINE.
IT WOULD TAKE APPROXIMATELY FIVE
FIGHTER SQUADRONS TO MAINTAIN A
CAP OVER THE TOP OF UKRAINE
RIGHT NOW.
FIVE FIGHTER SQUADRONS OPERATING
FULL TIME.
ASK THAT’S NOT INCLUDING ALL OF
THE OTHER SUPPORT ASSETS THAT
WOULD GO WITH IT, COMBAT SEARCH
AND RESCUE TEAMS, THE AIRBORNE
TANKERS, THE SURVEILLANCE
PLATFORMS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED
TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO CONTROL
THOSE PLATFORMS ONCE THEY’RE
OVER UKRAINE.
AND THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO
ACTUALLY LOSE FIGHTERS AND LOSE
AIR CREW OVER THAT WOULD GROW
EXPONENTIALLY AND BE MUCH HIGHER
THAN IT’S EVER BEEN IN THE LAST
25 OR 30 YEARS.
SO THE CHALLENGES AGAINST US AS
A NATION FIGHTING THE MOST
ADVANCED SURFACE TO AIR WEAPONS
SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, THE S-400,
WOULD BE DAUNTING.
BUT THE SECOND SIDE OF THIS IS
WHERE DOES THE NO-FLY ZONE END?
IF BECAUSE OF THE ADVANCED
RANGES OF WEAPONS THAT ARE FIRED
OFF OF OUR PLATFORMS AND RUSSIAN
PLATFORMS, YOU CAN ACTUALLY
LAUNCH A WEAPON OUTSIDE A OF
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE
WHETHER IT’S AN ESCAPE, AN
EVACUATION CORRIDOR OR NOT, YOU
COULD SHOOT INTO THAT CORRIDOR
AND THEN BE RELATIVELY,
QUOTE-UNQUOTE, SAFE BECAUSE
YOU’RE NOT IN THE CORRIDOR.
SO THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO
ACTUALLY SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL
WITH THIS KIND OF ENGAGEMENT
WITH A PEER COMPETITOR WOULD
VERY LIKELY TURN INTO AN ALL-OUT
WAR.
AND THAT’S WHY I’M NOT FOR IT.
BRIAN: YEAH.
SO, JOHN, THE NEXT STEP DOWN
APPARENTLY OR SEEMS TO BE THESE
MiG JETS.
I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO THE
PENTAGON’S STATEMENT ON
REJECTING THOSE FIGHTER JETS.
LISTEN.
>> WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE
TRANSFER OF ADDITIONAL FIGHTER
AIRCRAFT TO THE UKRAINIAN AIR
FORCE AT THIS TIME AND,
THEREFORE, HAVE NO DESIRE TO SEE
THEM IN OUR CUSTODY EITHER.
WE BELIEVE THE BEST WAY TO
SUPPORT UKRAINIAN DEFENSE IS BY
PROVIDING THEM THE WEAPONS AND
THE SYSTEMS THAT THEY NEED MOST
TO DEFEAT RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.
IN PARTICULAR, ANTI-ARMOR AND
AIR DEFENSE.
BRIAN: SO THE PENTAGON SAYS THEY
DON’T NEED THIS.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAYS, WE
NEED THESE.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE BACK AND
FORTH HERE.
>> WELL, BRIAN, IT’S AWFULLY
INTERESTING FOR US TO TELL THE
UKRAINIANS WHAT THEY NEED AS
OPPOSED TO LISTEN TO WHAT
THEY’RE ASKING FOR.
A NO-FLY ZONE IS OUT OF THE
QUESTION, BUT THE IDEA THAT WE
CAN FLIP-FLOP ON THIS, THIS
PROVIDING ASSETS, AIR ASSETS TO
UKRAINE IS JUST ABSOLUTELY
LUDICROUS.
ON SUNDAY SECRETARY BLINKEN HAD
BASICALLY TOLL THE WORLD THAT --
TOLD THE WORLD THAT WE WERE
GOING TO, HAD BROKERED THIS DEAL
AND IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND
THEN THE FOLLOWING TUESDAY,
THREE DAYS AGO, YOU HAD VICTORIA
NULAND ACTUALLY ACTING LIKE SHE
HAD NO IDEA THAT IT WAS TAKING
PLACE.
WHILE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN TRUE,
IT JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT
THIS IS FOREIGN POLICY IN A
BLENDER WHERE NOT EVEN PEOPLE
INSIDE THE STATE DEPARTMENT
UNDERSTAND WHAT’S GOING ON.
BRIAN: YEAH, IT’S NOT -- NO,
PLEASE.
>> IF I COULD GO ON, THESE
FIGHTERS THAT WE’RE TALKING
ABOUT ARE 1970s AND EARLY 1980
VINTAGE PLATFORMS.
THEY’RE DATED AIRCRAFT EVEN IN
THE RUSSIAN INVENN -- INVENTORY.
AND THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD
ESCALATE THIS INTO A WORLD WAR
BY PROVIDING THEM WITH THOSE
ASSETS IS EQUALLY LUDICROUS.
BRIAN: IT DOES -- YEAH, SORRY.
>> IF YOU GO BACK TO THE VIETNAM
WAR, THE COUNTRY THAT GAVE
FOREIGN MILITARY AID TO NORTH
VIETNAM IN THE FORM OF EVERY
SA-2 THAT THEY FIRED AT OUR
AIRMEN AND EVERY SOVIET
MiG-17, MiG-19 AND MiG-21,
WHICH WAS THEIR MOST ADVANCED
FIGHTER AT THE TIME, EVERY ONE
OF THOSE WAS PROVIDED TO FIGHT
OUR, OUR AIR FORCE.
AND OVER 1700 OF OUR AIRCRAFT
WERE SHOT DOWN, MANY OF THEM AT
THE HANDS OF THESE SAME WEAPONS.
BRIAN: WOW.
>> FOR US TO LOOK AT THIS AND
SAY YOU -- WE COULD ESCALATE
THIS INTO SOMETHING THAT’S OUT
OF CONTROL IS NOT A
HEAD-SCRATCHER, IT’S JUST FLAT
OUT UNBELIEVABLE.
BRIAN: JOHN, WE’VE GOT TO LEAVE
IT THERE, BUT I REALLY
APPRECIATE YOUR IN THE AIR