Before we get into the book,
we just watched a Democratic debate, um...
which has gotten a lot more exciting
than it has been in the past few debates.
You've been involved in Democratic politics,
specifically, for a very long time.
How do you think the Democratic race is going?
Uh, well, I think-- here's how I look at it.
What's interesting-- just one observation--
is that viewership of the debates is up,
but participation in the primaries is not.
It's not beating 2008, when we had record turnouts.
So that... concerns me.
In 2018, 2019, we had record energy.
And right now, uh, the debates are not producing
the type of energy you want to see.
So I have a small flashing yellow light saying:
a little concern on that.
It can always flip,
but right now I'm a little concerned about that.
And also, the other thing is that I have a new respect
for my family Thanksgiving dinner--
it looks a lot calmer compared to this.
-(laughter) -It does seem like it has become a lot more testy.
You know, Bloomberg stepping into the race
might have been a catalyst, but it feels like
as the field narrows, people are gonna fighting...
-The stakes are higher. -Yeah.
You were in the D-triple-C.
You have been part of helping Democrats win major elections.
You know, helping Bill Clinton become president,
working with Barack Obama as his chief of staff.
Here's a question that maybe you
would be mostly uniquely positioned to answer.
We have two mayors on that stage...
Three.
Three... previous mayors, with Bernie Sanders, yes.
But two mayors, you know, who just stepped out of being mayor,
saying that they want to run the country as president.
Yeah.
Does a mayor have the prerequisite experience
to run a country?
You've worked with a president, and you've been mayor.
How much of it gives you the experience you need?
Well, first of all, a lot.
Um, I... you know, the number one job
before being for president was governor.
All four governors
have been thrown off the island, basically,
and you're now left with mayors.
In England, the mayor of London
has just become the prime minister.
-Right. -And the experiences of dealing with...
When you think about where you live, where you work,
how you get to work, the things around your neighborhood,
from libraries to parks, those are all services
local governments deal with.
When you look at the major issues on climate change,
cities are leading.
When you look at the major cities-- Chicago,
we made community college free for the students
of the city of Chicago who got a B average.
We made pre-K universal for all our four-year-olds.
So the things that are major
in the sense of inclusive economic growth,
climate change, immigration policy,
mayors are taking that lead.
And the other piece of this, two other pieces of this--
the second piece is you actually fail in the job,
and you learn, then, from that experience.
And legislating is not really about failure.
Give one-- I used to say to President Clinton:
If we knew in the first year of the first term
what we knew by the first...
by the, uh, first year of the second term,
-we'd be geniuses. -Right.
And if you go back in history-- think about President Kennedy.
He had the Bay of Pigs. A mess.
Realized the Joint Chiefs
didn't know what they were talking about,
took a study of it,
and when it came to the Cuban Missile Crisis,
-Mm-hmm. -he knew how to handle it.
And mayors... stumble all the time.
And then the other piece of that--
and then pick themselves up, learn from it
and apply it to the future. And then the third piece...
But wait, let me ask you this before you go to that, though.
So if-if that's the case, if mayors are running the world,
then why is everyone running to be president?
Well, because it still has... the challenge you take on--
not everybody's... not every mayor's running to be president.
But I think the real thing is of what is happening,
-is you have a global economy, -Mm-hmm.
but all politics is local.
And 75% of the American people
have confidence in their local government,
and that number's in the mid-20s for national government.
Uh, and I do also think one other thing.
We're falling... we're really ripping apart.
In the city of Chicago-- this is true in New York,
it's true in L.A., it's true in a lot of cities of all sizes--
we have 145 languages spoken in our city.
Many different faiths, cultures, backgrounds.
But the aspiration of a parent,
regardless of where they came from,
-Right. -is the same for their child.
And mayors form a community and a sense of belonging.
And in a period of time of alienation and distance,
that sense of belonging gives you something
that is really an asset going forward,
where your diversity really can become a strength
rather than a liability.
So, let me ask you this, then, about the book.
Because I understand what you're saying about,
you know, being a mayor who's bringing people together.
In the book, you talk about the journey
that you've been on as a mayor.
You talk about the challenges that you face,
you know, on a day-to-day level
working for your constituents directly.
Is there something that makes being a mayor unique
in how you're dealing with people
versus just larger issues?
Yeah, I mean, you're, you know, there's a part of the book
where I talk about, I mean, you celebrate together,
-you have pain together, -Mm-hmm.
you have, uh, joy... moments of joy,
and then you work through a lot of issues.
You are in touch with the people,
and in many ways, I mean, people give you--
especially in Chicago-- there's thumbs-up,
and there's another digit they can also tell you,
and that happens all the time.
Uh, and I think that happens in the...
That was a cleaned-up version for me.
-I really, I'm proud of myself. -Right.
That's very unusual for me.
Uh, so the fact is, that's what happens.
And... but also, you can be there when--
and I will say this-- when I created
the Chicago Star Scholarship-- you got a B average,
we make community college, transportation, books free--
I saw the relief on parents' face,
that they didn't have to pick
which child got a chance to go to college.
They didn't have to take a second mortgage on their home
to give their child a chance at the American dream.
And the relief of the sense that they could be a good parent
and see what they could never get for themselves,
but for their children, that can only happen at a local level.
Now, I would love to have had a federal partner,
but I had to make sure every chance...
every child had a chance at the future.
And you do talk about that, and you have been given
a lot of credit for what you've done
in the education space in Chicago.
At the same time, you've taken a lot of fire,
-you know, for... -In education.
Right, in education as well, but you've taken a lot of fire
for closing down schools
that were predominantly black or Latino.
People have said, "You know, Mayor,
"why did you close down those schools
in areas where people needed it the most?"
-You know how important it is -Right.
to have black and brown kids in school, learning, growing.
You closed those schools down,
because you said they were underperforming.
A lot of the teachers went on strike,
and they said you weren't catering to their needs.
Where do you think you could have done better,
or what do you think you could have done differently?
So, the first part is, when I ran in 2011,
Chicago had the shortest school day and the shortest school year
in the United States of America.
I made a pledge to get that done.
That our children were not gonna be cheated
three years of education compared to a child in Houston.
Now, I could have said, "Hey," when I got elected,
"this is really hard," and then people would be angry
-I gave up on a pledge. -Mm-hmm.
I made that pledge, and I wanted to see it through.
It led to a seven-day strike, but in the end of the day,
our graduation rate went from 56% to nearly 80%
Our reading scores and math scores
for all kids of all backgrounds rose
and sometimes, in many ways, set national standards.
So, being a mayor, you're gonna...
If all you want to be loved, don't run for that job.
-Right. -If you want to make a decision
where the decisions you make
and you put your thumb on the scale
and the difference between a 56% graduation rate
and an 80% graduation rate is kids can believe in themselves
and then have a chance at a future.
-Did you... -And that's what public life is about.
Right. But do you ever... do you ever wonder
why, you know, people in Chicago...
Not all of them. I cannot speak for all of them.
You know more than them, obviously.
But-but in Chicago, there was... there was a term
that some people used for you where they would say,
"Rahm was an amazing mayor for the one percent."
-Yeah. -You know, and you knew that yourself.
You've even spoken about that.
Where do you think that came from?
Well, because we-we did a lot of things,
and let me say this.
We never gave a subsidy to any of the the sports teams.
We expanded the minimum wage.
-We created universal, full-day pre-K. -Mm-hmm.
We also eliminated all the tax subsidies
that governments were getting. Companies were getting, rather.
-Right. -And, so, I can understand the charge,
but I also know the record, and I know the difference
in Chicago public schools where when you graduate high school
and go to community college,
there's nobody in the one percent getting that.
-I get the politics of it. -Right.
But I also know when you made a major dent in the food deserts
where there were no grocery stores
within, uh, five mile of a neighborhood
in a community on the South Side or the West Side,
that was not just a job,
and that was not just a grocery store.
That was also the respect of that community.
-That comes with politics, and I get that. -Right.
Let me... let me ask you about an interesting trend
and dilemma that America faces.
On the stage tonight, we had two...
As you said, three former mayors with Bernie Sanders,
-but two who say mayor was their last public office job. -Yeah.
-Mm-hmm. -And those two are also the two
that are taking the most flak for their relationships
with the black communities that they served
and the police and how they treated them.
You yourself are a mayor who's came under fire
for the way your police treated
the black community in your city.
You know, the Laquan McDonald case was one
where people said you could have done a better job
in releasing the video.
You could have done a better job
of communicating with the community,
and it felt like you were protecting the police.
Is it the case in America
where mayors seem to be protecting
the police more than their constituents?
No. Well, the other thing I would say
is you saw that Amy Klobuchar
had a, uh, background as a prosecutor.
She's also come under fire.
So if you're involved in that in one aspect,
you're gonna get hit on that.
And every mayor as well as in the prosecutors
are making efforts to get both good public safety,
which is the number one priority for... as your responsibility,
as well as do it in a way that is good policing.
You work at it every day.
There's not just a point you hit at it.
And the fact is,
whether it's Mike Bloomberg or Mayor Pete,
Amy Klobuchar, others who also are getting criticized...
Joe Biden for his support of Violence Against Women
but also the '94 Crime Act.
People are now coming under attack for that,
and people are looking at it different.
And then the question is how do you apply those efforts
going forward to find the basis of community policing?
-And in a big city... -So, if you're looking back,
-I would... I'd be interested to know. -Yeah.
Because I-I agree with you. In life, you look back,
and you go like, "Man, I could have done something different.
I wish I could have changed that."
You do talk about that in the book.
You talk about how you wish you could have changed
some of the-the ways you treated the policing issues
-or how you would have dealt with them. -Yeah.
I-I have always been fascinated by this when I talk to mayors
-or read books of mayors once they've left office. -Mm-hmm.
Is it the case that as mayors,
there's a part of you that is afraid
to go up against your police unions
because of how much power they hold in reelecting you?
Or-or is it really just a symbiotic relationship
where the mayor goes, "I'm with the police no matter what"?
No. A-Actually, no. I think there's...
I don't want to speak for all the mayors,
but I would say this.
Making a major change in both the laws and the culture
while also executing on public safety...
Both... Doing both of those simultaneously,
not one at the expense of the other,
takes a tremendous amount of leadership.
So, prior to, uh, everything happening
in Chicago in 2016, I...
The first city ever to make a voluntary agreement
with the ACLU to check policing, whether it was done right.
We did the Safer Commission.
And we also did the first ever...
Only ever city to do reparations
for prior acts of police department
20 years prior to my tenure.
No city's ever done that.
I thought we had addressed it.
The problem and the d-depth of distrust
was much deeper than I accepted and understood.
And while we were fighting crime every day,
visiting fa...
a parent who's in the hospital alone,
seeing the depth of what happened
and being isolated because you as a parent
could not protect your child, what happened on the streets,
that happens.
And then at the same time,
you're trying to make changes to the police department.
You're trying to do both of those.
And so it doesn't... What you understand
is that the problem is a lot deeper
than people understood and appreciated.
And the fact is you have to make changes
because policing needed some of the insurance,
oversight and regulations that have not kept up
with community policing
and make it true community policing.
I have one final question for you before we let you go.
I could talk to you forever about the book and your job,
but you did it...
From the few things you've said
not just in the interview but in the book,
you've said it's not easy. It's a thankless job.
Everyone's gonna hate you at the end of it.
You're gonna do your best,
and you're gonna work your hardest.
-Knowing what you know now... -It's not like a c...
-It's not like a comedy show. -Yes.
Knowing what you know now...
Or it could be like a comedy show.
Knowing what you know now, would you do it again?
Oh, abso... Let me say this.
I've had the greatest public life.
working for senior advisor, President Clinton,
Congress, chief of staff for President Obama, mayor.
Mayor over here. All those three together.
Mayor's far better.
The highs are unbelievable. The lows are unbelievable.
But as mayor of city of Chicago,
I now know that children at the age of four,
not at the age of six, get an education.
We added four years to a child's education.
You can't do anywhere,
and you know the trajectory of their lives
-because you did that. -Mm-hmm.
And you were willing to spend your political capital
and your popularity
to make a difference in a child's life.
In a former life, I was gonna become
an early childhood educator.
Not that I would recommend you give your kids
time with me, okay, in that effort.
But having done... known that,
then knowing that you can make and take on a battle
and change a person's life and the trajectory...
You know, there's a saying in Rabbi, uh, Hillel.
"Who are you if not for yourself?
"What are you if you're only for yourself?
If not now, then when?"
My late father said that to me on my bar mitzvah.
And he says, "Your responsibility
"now that you become a Jew and an adult
"is to know that you can make a difference
in somebody else's life."
That is the most rewarding thing you can do in public life,
is give somebody else a chance of having a better life.
-I loved it. -Thank you so much for being on the show.
The Nation City is available now.
Rahm Emanuel, everybody.