- 80/20 QT phase two this time, Brook and Uronema.
80% of those results, 20% of the effort.
And this is easy, but there are some caveats.
Starting with what makes Brook different
than Ich or Velvet.
- So Brook, short for Brooklynella, it's typically
really, really common in wild clown fish.
Sometimes it's called clownfish disease.
But basically it is a direct (indistinct) contact parasite.
The entire life cycle of the parasite actually is
occurring on the fish.
It does make it easier to treat,
but the symptoms typically are that the skin on the fish
actually looks like it's peeling off.
Sometimes it looks like the fish
has cobwebs all over it.
With clownfish a really good indication of,
especially if wild clownfish come in,
if they are carrying Brooklynella,
the dorsal and vental fins a lot of times will be clamped,
and the body will kind of almost be rigid or stiff looking.
And they won't have like this normal, almost playful,
clownfish up and down swimming pattern.
The respiration will also be incredibly, incredibly labored,
and their head is typically pointed a little bit
upwards as well.
- So I ran into this twice.
One was on a clownfish, and it looks terrible.
And the other one actually was just as terrible,
which was engineer gobys,
and probably just got exposed to a wild clownfish.
So it does happen
to any fish that is exposed to this as well.
How treatable is it at that point?
- It's pretty difficult, especially on clownfish.
Some other fish, other species, you know,
if you catch it relatively early, it's pretty treatable.
The fish is relatively saveable,
but especially on clownfish, you definitely
have to be a lot more aggressive about treating it.
- Yeah, so some of what we're gonna talk about today
is actually more about prevention
and making sure that this doesn't make it into a tank
than it is about treatment, but there is some crossover
and we'll explain that in just a minute.
All right. So one of the other big difference
between Brook and Ich and Velvet is that
it's not effective with, or responsive to copper.
It's responsive to something else.
And this is probably gonna be a big decision tree
for a lot of you.
- Yeah, so the ideal treatment for Brooklynella
it's Formalin.
Formalin is 37% formaldehyde diluted in water.
It is a known carcinogen.
It's incredibly, incredibly toxic stuff.
We at Marine Collectors, like, I am the only one
who uses Formalin.
I do the dips and the dosing after everyone goes home.
When we do system doses, I do 'em at night
when no one's in the building.
And then I come in early and I ventilate the warehouse
before people start coming in, you know,
showing up for work. - Okay.
- We're dealing with a lot of unknowns
and it's just better to air on the side of caution.
- I'd love to tell you exactly how carcinogen
or carcinogenic it is, how bad this is.
And the answer is, if you look it up,
it says it's, like, causes leukemia.
But also formaldehyde's in all kinds of things
in our houses, basically every new house, plywood,
pressed board, it's in all kinds of things.
I don't know the difference between whether or not
this is gonna cause you leukemia for sure.
Or if it's the equivalent to smoking a single cigarette.
You're gonna have to make that decision for yourself
through some research.
So this is that decision tree between,
Yeah this is actually really, really easy and it does kind
of fit the 80/20 model, but you're gonna wanna be--
you know, wear a mask and protect yourself.
And there is a difference between what's gassed off here
and whether or not you spilled it all over the floor
and like took a big, huge breath of it.
So, the most common, the most recommended solution here,
requires a different level of safety techniques
than is common to somebody who's doing this
for the first time.
All right, next Uronema, what makes this one different
than Ich and Velvet as well?
- [Elliot] All right, so just like Brook
it is a direct contact (indistinct) parasite.
We treat it in a very, very similar way.
Uronema, it'll often present on Chromis.
Sometimes it's called Chromis disease.
But basically they are like large, red sores on the fish.
It also usually affects fish that don't ship very well.
So a lot of times you can see it
on Butterflies and Anthias.
You know, once this actual physical symptoms
start manifesting, it's almost impossible to save the fish,
which is why we want to look at
prophylactic treatment in the first place.
- Yeah, so a lot of what we're gonna talk about today
is prevention, not treatment,
because treatment, if you're doing this for your first time,
and, like, really low outcome.
In fact, low outcome for a lot of experienced people.
And in fact, this is one of those areas with Uronema
where it's not as well understood as the other diseases,
and the treatments aren't as universally agreed on.
Almost everybody will tell you that Formalin works for sure,
but there's some discussion about how, you know,
a period of freshwater dips or hydrogen peroxide,
or different things work,
but we haven't found a universal agreement
on all those things.
So, you're just gonna see a lot of debate on this one.
Also, another difference between Uronema
and all the other ones we've gone into so far
is that once it's in the tank, you should probably consider
that it's there forever.
Because, unlike Brook and Ich and Velvet, Uronema
actually doesn't need a fish to prey on, it actually preys
on all the detritus and other garbage that's in your tank.
And more so, it's really just kind of opportunistic
the fact that it can find, like, an open wound or, you know
area between the scales to attack.
- Yeah. I mean, a lot of times, you know,
it's what we often think is that fish come in,
they're slightly damaged from shipping.
They come into contact with Uronema,
Uronema will sometimes jump onto the, you know,
dead, decaying tissue to eat
all of the decaying organic matter.
And then once it's been consumed,
they'll actually move on to the living tissue as well.
- All right. I've actually heard multiple people tell me
stories of actually their best treatment for Uronema
is actually to take that sick fish
and put it in a healthy tank.
Don't do that.
But it's important to note
that a healthy microbiome or all the healthy bacterias
in a tank can actually overpower the sore
that's on it that otherwise wouldn't have.
Now, the reason I say don't do that is because
nobody wants to have an outbreak of this in your tank,
and you don't know whether or not
your tank is healthy enough to solve that.
But it is important to note because this is the life cycle
and how it behaves.
Another difference here between that Ich and the Velvet
is the Formalin thing again.
Decide for yourself, do some research for yourself.
And even Elliot doesn't do this around his own employees,
takes all of the safety measures at Marine collectors
when using this material.
'Cause it isn't healthy for you,
you're gonna have to make that decision for yourself.
All right, prevention, QT for Brook and Uronema.
Luckily, it looks very, very similar
because it is the exact same thing as the Ich and Velvet,
just with an extra process.
So, if you haven't seen phase one with Ich and Velvet,
go watch that.
'Cause there's just a tiny tweak to this
and you can solve for these two.
- Yeah, so we're gonna look at phase one
of this quarantine protocol as kind of our base,
and we're just gonna build on it.
That initial freshwater bath that I said we should do,
we can replace that with Formalin.
Formalin actually will kill flukes as well.
And you can see them fall off the fish
just like you would in a freshwater dip.
And then on the subsequent days, days 3, 6, 9, and so on,
every three days when we're already gonna be doing
a water change, you can do that 35 minute bath
at that point in time.
We're also gonna sanitize the tank at that step as well,
just so that when we're putting the fish back in
it's going into a very clean environment.
- All right. So step one, we told you last week
that it would take about 10 minutes to do the water change.
This time it's gonna take about 35, because--
- Yeah, so when we pull that fish out, we're gonna do
a Formalin dip or Formalin bath rather, sorry.
What it's gonna look like is you're gonna do a dosage
of one mill per gallon of water Formalin.
We're gonna put an airstone in that bucket as well,
so we have good oxygenation.
Formalin actually does strip the water of oxygen
a little bit.
We wanna make sure that that fish isn't gonna have trouble
with normal respiration.
And then while that fish is actually in that bath,
what we're gonna do is we're going to clean this
best we can.
My personal recommendation is to actually fill it up
with fresh water, leave it, let it sit for 10 minutes.
What that's gonna do is the fresh water is going to
kill off all of the Uronema and Brook that was potentially
falling off the fish that's still in this tank
with osmotic shock, drain it back down,
fill it back up with your medicated water.
And that's all you need to do.
- While those things are sitting
in that bath for 35 minutes.
And by the way, the Formalin you're looking for
is called 37%.
Don't pick anything else.
Then, during that process, while we're doing the bath,
fill it up with the fresh water,
let the osmotic shock kill off everything in there.
It's not sterilizing the tank,
but it's killing what we want to kill.
And then just put it back in after you filled it back up,
just like you would for the Ich and Velvet,
and then repeat that process every time during this.
So, for the four additional process, mission accomplished.
Brook and Uronema will probably not gonna ever be
an issue in your tanks.
All right. Caveats, stipulations to Brook and Uronema
are longer than Ich and Velvet as well.
Starting with, if you have really sensitive fish,
you should do the process a little different.
- Yeah, so if, you know,
let's say you're doing flash (indistinct,)
stuff that already is gonna have a hard time in copper,
we don't wanna add to that stress by also doing
Formalin dips.
I would just do the phase one by itself.
And then, when you're done, remove the fish,
make sure that we clean this tank out.
My personal recommendation is either bleach it
or just use a different tank that way you're not
potentially reusing the same QT system that might contain
Ich or Velvet in there, and then reinfecting it with
unmedicated water.
What you'll do is then refill
that tank with unmedicated water.
We will still actually wanna do the (indistinct) zone,
but we won't do the copper.
And then you're gonna follow that same three-day
split protocol, but just do the Formalin by itself.
- Just for clarification,
when you go do this for these sensitive fish,
do the exact phase one protocol the way that you saw it
in that video, don't deviate from it all.
Then essentially go repeat it
but this time without the copper,
and then replace in those Formalin dips
during those water changes and then you'll solve for both,
and you'll do it for more delicate fish.
Another caveat here is if you're doing Chromis,
I don't know, this might be the first step.
- Yeah, so, if you got fish that you know
are extra, extra prone or you think might have been
in a system that had Uronema, or maybe you suspect
that Uronema might be developing, do this first,
do the Formalin before you do phase one,
or do it in conjunction with phase one.
Yeah, Uronema does move really rapidly,
so if it is a fish that is infected,
it's definitely better to treat that first with Formalin
and then do the copper.
- [Ryan] I think I would call this true of any disease.
If you can physically see that disease, or you know
that that fish is uniquely prone to that disease,
maybe you should do that one first.
Another caveat to this is a bath in Formalin
or formaldehyde is actually a pretty harsh treatment,
and not all of the fish will actually need it.
- Yeah. I mean, very, very few fish
are ever exposed to Brook.
You know, usually that's primarily a clown fish thing,
which makes this part of the quarantine phase
really unnecessary.
You know, formaldehyde it's toxic, to us toxic to the fish.
You know, a lot of these chemicals that we use
if we don't need to,
it's probably better not to, especially when
you're considering your own health,
but definitely, definitely use your best judgment.
Only do this if you think that the fish is prone or carrying
or potentially already infected with these things.
- So if you're not reading between the lines here,
everybody should do phase one.
It's really easy.
Do it for-- I mean, I'd say do it for Ich,
but really do it for Velvet,
and by solving Velvet, you just happen to solve Ich as well.
This one, I don't know if I would say
that this is perfect for the first time QT.
- Lot of anecdotal data in here. (chuckles)
- It is a progression path.
It is part of a journey
of essentially learning how to be a fish vet
and how to do it responsibly,
and how to recognize the signs and learn.
So, I would start with phase one and then build upon it.
Another caveat here is Formalin isn't the only answer,
it just happens to be the most effective of the answers
that we know.
There are some experimental or options that seem to work
sometimes, just not all the time.
- Yeah, so anecdotally in the hobby and in the industry,
we've seen freshwater dips
definitely help Uronema and manage Brooklynella.
I can personally say from my own experience that, years ago,
we used to only dip freshwater--
or clownfish in freshwater dips.
We do the dips eight hours apart every day
for like the first week.
And the fish usually do pretty well,
but it's not full proof.
Another option, chloroquine phosphate.
I've seen it work to cure Uronema and Brooklynella,
but I've also seen it not, you know,
so use your own judgment.
If you think that the Formalin aspect is gonna be too
abrasive for you and you wanna try the lesser options,
that's definitely out there for you.
- I've also seen people exploring using hydrogen peroxide
for some of these types of diseases.
So, you might wanna research that as well,
if Formalin isn't right for you.
The only reason that we're not documenting this
and saying do it this way out of us is because
a lot of these things are hit or miss or experimental,
and that's not the kind of advice that we can give.
Another caveat or actually just kind of extension of things
that you could do for Uronema is you could feed Metro.
- Yeah, so metronidazole, it's often used in a gut cleaner
to actually force Uronema out of the intestinal track.
I'm a little bit got mixed reviews on it,
just because I don't know it to be foolproof all the time,
but you could do that as well.
- To me, it's somewhat mix sound logic
and sometimes sounds logic actually works.
And sometimes it just feel good.
So, it isn't part of the protocol that we developed today,
but you could add that in,
how would I feed Metro if I wanted to?
- So actually if you're just gonna do
a gut cleaner in general,
my recommendation is actually do metronidazole, (indistinct)
and optional Prosil, especially if you think
that your fish might have internal flageolets,
and then you'll bind that with like a frozen food
like (indistinct) or something and Focus,
it's the product made by Seachem,
but basically it will bind those medications
to the solid fish food and make it stick to it
so that the fish actually ingests the medication.
- So you had me do that for Popeye on one of the fishes,
right? (Elliot laughs)
And what it is that Focus is actually kind of
like a putty and you mix in the powders in with the Focus,
bind it all up to something tasty,
and then the fish will eat the whole thing and ingest it.
So, that is an option.
You could add it to this whole mix if you'd like.
All right, so because of all of those caveats,
I think it's reasonable to say that phase two here
is what I'd call optional,
or at least something that you would work your way up to
as part of the whole QT process.
Again, do the Ich and Velvet for sure,
but this one, it might be something that you grow into.
And when I say optional, I can tell you, for me,
optional means my option is actually to have people
like Marine Collectors do this for me.
He's doing it in a professional environment,
managing all of the risks of the Formalin safely there.
And I don't have to expose my household
to spilling it on the floor, or my kids crawling through it
or anything like that.
So, think about how important that is.
And there are other options and do it at home,
but now we've told you how to do it really cheaply
at home as well.
All right. So what's next? Phase three.
We're talking flukes now.
And to be honest, if you did that Formalin step here,
you probably wiped up most of the flukes as well,
but not necessarily all.
- Yeah. You know, just anecdotally, I've seen Formalin
not knock out all the gill flukes.
You know, it could just be a matter of frequency
or the type of actual gill fluke that the fish have.
But if you wanna be absolutely sure
that the flukes are eradicated,
we're gonna show you how to do it.
- Yeah. Phase three, get those flukes outta the tank.
Especially if you skip phase two,
this is how you're gonna do it.
Playlist right here.