THE
THE PAST
THE PAST 16 YEARS TRACKING AND ANALYZING THE NUMBERS. >> I'M PHIL STINSON.
I'M A PROFESSOR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE AT BOWLING GREEN STATE
UNIVERSITY IN OHIO AND I STUDY
POLICE CRIME.
>> PHIL STINSON LEADS THE OHIO
BASED POLICE INTEGRA RESEARCH
GROUP.
HE'S CREATED ONE OF THE MOST
COMPREHENSIVE DATABASES IN THE
COUNTRY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT
CRIMES.
WHAT DOES YOUR DATA SHOW?
>> WELL, WE NOW KNOW THAT ABOUT
1000 TIMES EACH YEAR ON DUTY
POLICE OFFICERS SHOOT AND KILL
SOMEONE AND YET ONLY A HANDFUL
OF TIMES EACH YEAR AN AVERAGE
OF ABOUT EIGHT TIMES A YEAR IS
AN OFFICER CHARGED WITH MURDER
OR MANSLAUGHTER RESULTING FROM
ONE OF THOSE ON DUTY SHOOTINGS.
SINCE 2005, JUST ONE HUNDRED
AND TWENTY ONE OFFICERS ACROSS
THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN CHARGED
WITH MURDER OR MANSLAUGHTER
RESULTING FROM AN ON DUTY
SHOOTING.
WE'VE ONLY SEEN SEVEN OFFICERS
ACTUALLY CONVICTED OF MURDER
DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.
>> HOW DO WE REALLY KNOW IF AN
OFFICER WAS USING FORCE TO
PROTECT HIS OR HER OWN LIFE?
VS. IF OTHER FACTORS WERE AT
PLAY THERE?
I MEAN HOW DO WE MAKE THOSE
DETERMINATIONS?
THEY HAVE TO APPLY THE LAW TO
THE FACTS OF THE CASE AS BEST
THEY CAN.
>> ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT I
SEE IS THAT IF YOU WERE I WENT
OUT AND SHOT AND KILLED SOMEONE
TODAY THEY'RE RESPONDING
INVESTIGATORS.
THE POLICE CHIEF PROSECUTORS
WOULD ALL CONSIDER THAT FROM
THE GET GO.
AS A CRIMINAL MATTER, A
CRIMINAL HOMICIDE CASE, THEY
WOULD TREAT THE SCENE AS A
CRIME SCENE.
THEY WOULD MAKE CERTAIN
NOTIFICATIONS AND CERTAIN ORDER
.
THEY WOULD INTERVIEW WITNESSES
IN A CERTAIN WAY.
BUT WHEN A POLICE OFFICER IS
INVOLVED IN LINE DUTY SHOOTING
IT SEEMS IN MANY PLACES THE
RESPONDING INVESTIGATORS, THE
POLICE CHIEF OF POLICE
SUPERVISORS OF PROSECUTORS,
THEY ALL START WITH A DIFFERENT
SET OF ASSUMPTIONS.
THEY SEEMED TO START WITH THE
ASSUMPTION THIS WAS AN ON DUTY
SHOOTING.
IT WAS PROBABLY LEGALLY
JUSTIFIED.
CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW WE
CAN BALANCE THIS NEED FOR
GREATER ACCOUNTABILITY FOR
OFFICERS WHOSE ACTIONS ARE
ROOTED IN RACISM VS. YOU KNOW,
ALLOWING ROOM FOR OFFICERS TO
REACT WHEN SHOOTINGS ARE
JUSTIFIED, WHEN SOMEONE IS
THREATENING TO COMMIT SUICIDE
BY COP, FOR EXAMPLE?
>> THESE ARE DIFFICULT
SITUATIONS AND POLICE OFFICERS
REALLY SET OUT TO PERFORM
IMPOSSIBLE TASKS.
>> I MEAN THEY DON'T THINK
THERE ARE ANY EASY FIXES
CERTAINLY MOST POLICE OFFICERS
SERVE HONORABLY BUT WE REALLY
NEED TO RETHINK WHAT IS IT WE
WANT POLICE OFFICERS TO DO AND
WHAT TYPE OF PEOPLE DO WE WANT
TO BE POLICE OFFICERS AND THOSE
ARE TWO CORE ISSUES.
>> THERE ARE A LOT OF POLICE
OFFICERS THAT FEEL THAT THEY
ARE BEING UNFAIRLY TARGETED
RIGHT NOW AND ARE SORT UNDER A
MICROSCOPE.
IS IT FAIR TO BE SORT
OF JUDGING ALL OFFICERS BY THE
STANDARD THAT WE SEE WHEN WE
HEAR STORIES OF BRIONA TAYLOR
OR GEORGE FLOYD?
>> PROBABLY NOT.
BUT ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THIS
IS, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE
WEREN'T PAYING VERY CLOSE
ATTENTION TO ISSUES INVOLVING
POLICE BRUTALITY BEFORE ABOUT
SIX YEARS AGO.
AND I THINK THAT THE POLICE ARE
UNDER A MICROSCOPE AND I'M NOT
SO SURE THAT'S NOT A GOOD
THING.
I THINK IT IS A GOOD THING.
WE EXPECT AN AWFUL LOT OF OUR
POLICE AND FRANKLY WE'RE SEEING
THESE THINGS TIME AND AGAIN
THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC.
I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA
WITH MORE THAN 1000 PEOPLE SHOT
AND KILLED BY ON DUTY POLICE
OFFICERS IN THIS COUNTRY.
THAT'S AN AVERAGE OF MORE THAN
TWO ALMOST THREE A DAY.
THAT'S THAT'S REALLY SHOCKING
TO MOST PEOPLE.
THERE WAS A GALLUP POLL THAT
JUST CAME OUT THAT SAID THAT
CONFIDENCE IN POLICE HAS
DROPPED BELOW 50 PERCENT FOR
THE FIRST TIME SINCE THAT POLL
BEGAN.
>> HOPE IT'S A WAKEUP CALL FOR
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND
FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.
IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.
YOU KNOW, MANY POLICE
DEPARTMENTS AND SHERIFFS
OFFICES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE
HAVING DIFFICULTY RECRUITING
YOU PEOPLE TO WANT TO WORK IN
THOSE AGENCIES AS SWORN
OFFICERS.
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO RESTORE
PUBLIC TRUST IN LAW, ENFORCE A
SYSTEMIC CHANGE TO POLICING?
>> WE'VE GOT TO GET AWAY FROM
THE POLICE USE OF FIREARMS AND
SUCH A REGULAR BASIS.
WE'VE GOT TO STOP POLICE
BRUTALITY.
WE'VE GOT TO STOP.
YOU KNOW THE KILLING OF PEOPLE
OF COLOR.
IT'S JUST A HUGE PROBLEM AND
PEOPLE OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE ARE
NOW PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN
GET PAST THIS UNTIL WE REALLY
FIGURE OUT A WAY TO CHANGE THE
CORE