>> CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin has been suspended from the New Yorker following an
incident where he reportedly exposed himself during a Zoom call with employees of the magazine
and WNYC radio.
Now he's a staff writer over at the New Yorker and also a legal analyst over at CNN.
He has asked for some time off pending this investigation.
The New Yorker is conducting an investigation.
And when the story was first reported, we didn't have some, we didn't have the details.
We didn't know what really happened.
It seemed like there was just some sort of mistake where he thought his Zoom video was
off but it turned out it was on.
And look, people are working from home, some people are like super cash.
Sometimes, when I'm doing the production meeting with the homies, like I don't want to change
out of my robe so I'm wearing a robe.
But like I'm never naked while I'm doing my production meetings.
And then it turns out according to Vice, based on people who are present during the meeting,
he was more than just, he was allegedly pleasuring himself.
So he has released a statement saying the following, I made an embarrassingly stupid
mistake believing I was off camera.
I apologize to my wife, family, friends and coworkers.
I believed I was not visible on Zoom.
I thought no one on the Zoom call could see me.
I thought I had muted the Zoom video.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know how to feel about any of this.
It's disturbing like meetings do not turn me on.
>> Meetings do the opposite.
Like, that's one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard my life.
>> Everything in this story is cryptic cuz it's awkward and people don't like to talk
about awkward things.
But there's one part that's very relevant to whether Toobin should be fired or not,
okay?
I'm gonna get to that in a second.
First of all, for that same exact reason, the reporting until vise jumped in was maddening.
They're like, he exposed himself on a Zoom call.
Like, okay, but maybe he didn't realize the camera was on, he was getting dressed.
He shouldn't and that's bad and he should have been way more thoughtful because of what
he's potentially exposing people to.
But that's different than if he's doing something else, right?
And so finally, we find out it is something else.
By the way, we already having guess that that was the situation.
Number one, you don't get, I would have been surprised if he got suspended cuz he was getting
dressed and didn't realize the camera was on, right?
Number two, when he apologized to his wife and family, I was lik, okay, it was not just
getting dressed, right?
>> And, Cenk, can I comment on that real quick on apologizing to his wife.
So when I read the initial reports on this, I was like, man, his wife's got to be a little
more understanding, like why is he apologizing to his wife?
I thought it was just I really believed him like I believe the initial reports that made
it appear as though he just like made a mistake.
His camera was on and maybe he just like I don't know rolled out of bed in the nude and
made a mistake, right?
Like, okay, wife, go easy on him but now like we got to figure out why election simulations
turn them on so much because that was what was going on during this meeting.
>> Yeah, like I don't think so.
>> Like he is real excited about election simulation.
>> Or election stimulation, if you will, okay.
Okay, now look, it's easy to joke around about the story very, very easy and I'm holding
back 10 to 20 jokes.
But there is something important here.
So first of all, if he did it on purpose, then he should be fired because then he's
subjecting coworkers to that and that's totally unacceptable, okay?
Now it appears he did not do it on purpose, and you'd have to be quite mental to do it
on purpose.
On the other hand, Fox News hosts have done it repeatedly, not this particular transgression.
But you remember the Bill O'Reilly phone sex calls where the producer would not participate
at all and he just started talking about rubbing loofahs on her.
And it was just the most insane thing you'd ever seen, right, or heard in that case.
So it's not outside of the bounds of imagination, but it appears that this everyone here is
saying that it was a mistake.
I think intent matters.
And so you might still fire him and say, look, you were so negligent in exposing coworkers
to this and you got to go.
That's not for me to decide, that's for them to decide and I'm curious what others think
about that.
In terms of the critical part here, Anna.
So they said it appeared he had another Zoom, call on.
I took that to mean potentially another video on or some sort of interactive video if you
know what I mean on, okay?
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> So now the reason, this is all super uncomfortable stuff but the reason why that matters is,
wait, is this some distraction that you were doing and you forgot the Zoom camera was on?
Or are you in some way directing it to your coworkers?
You see what I'm saying?
And and so as uncomfortable as that is, that might be a very important distinction.
And again not for me to decide, that's the New Yorkers' gotta decide, CNN's gotta decide.
But do you understand the distinction I'm making, Anna?
>> Yeah, I understand the distinction and I know that you're not in any way trying to
justify it regardless intent does, yeah, no, I know.
But like there is a distinction between intentional unintentional, I get all that.
I don't know like I, god, it's a very unfortunate situation.
I don't even really know how I feel yet about all of this because I don't know, man, like
when you're having a meeting for work, you gotta be present.
And it's just like, I get that we all get distracted.
If we're working from home, your family's there.
There's a bunch of stuff going on and I get those distractions.
But you can't be jerking off during a meeting like you just even if you're doing the meeting
from home, right, like just don't do it.
Just have your meeting.
You guys are talking about some dorky election simulation like do the meeting and then have
at it, right?
Have at it even if you're on the clock like, God, do you boo, right, we all need a little
relief here and there.
Things are stressful, but like just wait until the meeting is over, you got to be smarter
than that.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't know.
>> So here's the thing.
It appears that you're laying down a hard and fast rule.
And one that probably makes sense so I had to get one.
All right, anyway, so but guys, there's two different issues here.
>> So did he.
>> Yeah, apparently yeah, yeah.
All right, look, there's two different issues here, one serious and one lighthearted and
they're in the same story.
And so the serious issue is how he's interacting with his coworkers and that's a very serious
issue.
It should be taken seriously by those news organizations.
And they should come to a thoughtful decision and they should talk to the people who were
affected, who are on that line.
How do they feel about it?
What was the context and really make sure that you're handling it in a professional
way.
To make sure that you have a safe work environment that's free of any sexual harassment, any
discrimination, etc.
Okay, that's a very, very serious issue.
Now, the human side of this issue is the one that's light hearted but also sad, right?
It's easy to joke around about, a guy caught masturbating, right?
But as you pointed out, Anna, I'm suspected Toobin is not the only one in the country
that partakes in that.
But he's the one that got caught and so everybody gets to have a giant laugh over him and maybe
it ends his career.
If he meant to do it in a work context, then I don't shed a tear at all, right?
If it was just a big giant mistake and he's still wrong at work and they fire him, I totally
understand that.
But you also as a human being go, man, that it sucks for his coworkers more, but it it
sucks for him, too, that maybe- >> Yeah.
>> That's an unacceptable opinion to have now or maybe that's just a human opinion to
have.
But that's the sense I got from it.
>> Yeah, no, I mean, look, I think that your assessment of it is right and I do wanna take
it seriously for a second.
Because I think that it is correct that there needs to be in depth investigation to ensure
that he's never done anything that's made his employees uncomfortable.
Because who knows, more details might come out.
We don't know and so far, it does appear that this was a genuine mistake.
One thing that I want us to also be cognizant of, is that the very nature of working from
home has turned a workday to a literal work day, like the entire day, right?
Like people are having Zoom meetings, like off hours, like Zoom meetings everywhere.
Like, hey, you know what, it's five in the morning and normally, we wouldn't have a meeting.
But we've been doing these Zoom meetings, so let's do a meeting now and it's like Zoom
meetings all over the place like everyone.
So when are you supposed to live, like when are you supposed to enjoy your life?
When are you supposed to connect with your loved ones?
When are you supposed to have intimacy with your loved ones?
Like things become pretty overwhelming because now, it seems like you're always available,
always on call, and you should always be working.
So I don't know if that's the case that he's experiencing right now.
But I just want us to be aware that people are people, right, intent does matter.
I genuinely don't think based on the details we have right now that there was any malice
or any ill intent.
And if it is proven that this was a genuine mistake, I actually feel pretty awful for
him.
It's incredibly embarrassing and you're right, this might destroy his career.