BECAUSE IT’S OBVIOUS.
OUR LEADERS SPEND MOST OF
THEIR TIME DENYING IT THEY
ARE LYING TO US.
>> Tucker: A PHOENIX CITY
COUNCIL MEMBER RUNNING FOR
MAYOR IN THAT CITY AND SHE
SUPPORTS THE CONTINUATION OF
DACA.
SHE JOINS US TONIGHT.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
I APPRECIATE IT?
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
HAVING ME.
>> Tucker: SO TRYING TO
THINK THROUGH HOW LEGALIZING
PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE
ILLEGALLY HELPS AMERICAN
CITIZENS AND IN ARIZONA WE
HAVE SOME DATA ON THIS
BECAUSE IT -- THE STATE
PASSED AS YOU KNOW ONE OF
THE TOUGHEST
ANTI-IMMIGRATION LAWS IN THE
COUNTRY IN 2010.
AND THE EFFECTS OF THAT HAVE
BEEN STUDIED.
HERE IS WHAT THEY SHOWED
THERE WAS A SHORT-TERM LABOR
SHORTAGE OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE
HERE TO WORK, THEY CAN’T
WORK.
THERE WAS A LABOR SHORTAGE.
OVER TIME AUTOMATION MADE UP
FOR IT AND WAGES WENT UP FOR
AMERICAN WORKERS, COSTS
MEANWHILE WENT DOWN.
PRISON COSTS WENT DOWN,
EDUCATION COSTS WENT DOWN.
DRAMATICALLY BY HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
SO GIVEN THAT WE KNOW THAT
WHY DOES IT HELP THE ECONOMY
TO LEGALIZE PEOPLE HERE
ILLEGALLY?
>> RIGHT NOW THE CITY OF
PHOENIX IS THE FASTEST
GROWING CITY IN THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY.
WE HAVE ADDED MORE PEOPLE IN
2016 THAN ANY OTHER CITY AND
WE ARE CONSTRAINED BY OUR
WORKFORCE RIGHT NOW.
WE JUST HAD SOME FOLKS FROM
THE HOME BUILDING INDUSTRY
COME INTO THE CITY OF
PHOENIX AND SAY WE COULD DO
SO MUCH MORE IF WE HAD A
LARGER CONSTRUCTION
WORKFORCE.
WE’LL COULD BE CREATING
JOBS.
WE COULD BE BUILDING NEW
AFFORDABLE HOMES FOR PEOPLE
TO LIVE IN.
BUT WE DON’T HAVE THE
WORKFORCE WE NEED.
AND THEY SAID THAT THE POINT
THAT THEY REALLY FEEL LIKE
IT’S CHANGED WAS NOT HAVING
ENOUGH PEOPLE THROUGH
IMMIGRATION.
>> Tucker: YEAH.
WELL, A LOT OF -- I BET THEY
FEEL THAT WAY.
NO, A LOT OF EMPLOYERS MAKE
THAT CASE AND THEY MEAN IT
THEY WANT OBVIOUSLY CHEAPER
LABOR.
I THINK ALL EMPLOYERS DO.
WHY WOULDN’T THEY?
BUT, IF THAT’S TRUE, IF
MORISM LEGAL IMMIGRANTS MAKE
A PLACE RICHER, THEN HOW
MANY SPECIFICALLY DO YOU
THINK ARIZONA OR PHOENIX
NEEDS?
HOW MANY ILLEGALS DO YOU
NEED IN YOUR CITY TO MAKE IT
RICHER?
WOULD MORE BE BETTER?
HOW ABOUT 10 MILLION?
WOULD IT MAKE IT EVEN
RICHER?
>> RIGHT NOW WE ARE
DESPERATELY CONCERNED ABOUT
OUR DACA RECIPIENTS WHO ARE
IN OUR CITY.
ARIZONA HAS 28,000 DACA
RECIPIENTS WHO HAVE BEEN
GREAT MEMBERS OF OUR
COMMUNITY WHO WENT TO OUR
HIGH SCHOOLS, WERE EDUCATED
HERE.
WE HAVE BEEN INVESTING IN
THEM FOR YEARS.
NOW THEY ARE READY TO GIVE
BACK AND WE ARE WORRIED
ABOUT THEIR FUTURE RIGHT
NOW.
OUR REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR HAS
STEPPED UP AND SAID THEY’RE
AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR
ECONOMY.
WE WANT THEM TO STAY.
>> Tucker: RIGHT.
NO BUT YOU JUST SAID, I JUST
WANT TO GET TO THE NUMBER OF
IT THOUGH BECAUSE I THINK
IT’S A BIG DEAL.
WOULD YOU LEGALIZE PEOPLE.
THEY VOTE, THEY BRING THEIR
RELATIVES.
IT CHANGES THE PLACE, MAYBE
FOR THE BETTER, MAYBE TO THE
WORSE.
WE SHOULD BE CLEAR ABOUT THE
EFFECTS I THINK YOU WOULD
AGREE.
IF BRINGING IN MORE PEOPLE
ILLEGALLY AND MAKING THEM
CITIZENS MAKES YOU MORE
PROSPEROUS THEN WHY WOULDN’T
YOU BRING IN 10 MILLION AND
BECOME REALLY REALLY RICH.
WOULD THAT WORK?
>> IMMIGRANTS HAVE BEEN
AMAZING CONTRIBUTORS TO OUR
COMMUNITY.
>> Tucker: RIGHT?
>> IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF
THE DATA FROM FORWARD DOT
U.S. MARK ZUCKERBERG’S
ORGANIZATION.
>> Tucker: I BET.
>> SO MANY OF THE
ENTREPRENEURS WHO BUILT OUR
TECH ECONOMY CAME HERE
THROUGH IMMIGRATION.
AND WE IN PHOENIX ARE
DESPERATE FOR MORE PEOPLE IN
ENGINEERING AND COMPUTER
SCIENCE.
>> Tucker: HOW MANY BIG TECH
COMPANIES WERE STARTED BY
PEOPLE FROM CENTRAL AND
SOUTH AMERICA?
LATIN AMERICA?
>> SO, RIGHT NOW I’M SITTING
IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA, VERY
CLOSE TO A COMPANY CALLED
FOR TIS WHO WAS STARTED BY A
GENTLEMAN FROM PANAMA.
IT’S ONE OF OUR TOP
ENGINEERING COMPANIES IN
THIS COMMUNITY AND THINK
ACTUALLY ARE ONE OF OUR
LARGEST EMPLOYERS OF AT RISK
VETERANS.
A WONDERFUL SUCCESS STORY.
>> Tucker: I BET HE IS A
GREAT GUY AND THE COMPANY IS
GREAT HOW MANY BIG TECH
COMPANIES WERE STARTED BY
THE IMMIGRANTS THAT YOU ARE
TALKING ABOUT SINCE YOU
BROUGHT IT UP?
HOW MANY?
>> IF YOU LOOK WE HAVE SO
MANY SUCCESS STORIES IN THIS
COMMUNITY AND SOME OF THEM
HAVE GOTTEN NATIONAL
ATTENTION.
>> Tucker: OKAY.
SO I JUST WANT TO BE -- WITH
RESPECT, I’M NOT ATTACKING
IMMIGRANTS.
I LIKE IMMIGRANTS.
I’M SURE A LOT OF THESE
BUT PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE,
WHO ARE BORN HERE WHO ARE
CITIZENS HAVE THE RIGHT TO
KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THIS.
SO HOW MANY IS THE OPTIMUM
NUMBER?
IF BRINGING IN PEOPLE
ILLEGALLY AND MAKES YOU MORE
PROSPEROUS WHAT’S THE IDEAL
NUMBER WE SHOULD GIVE
CITIZENSHIP TO?
>> OUR COUNTRY AND OUR
COMMUNITY WAS BUILT BY
IMMIGRATION.
>> Tucker: OKAY YOU ARE NOT.
>> WE HAVE SOME STORIES IN
THIS COMMUNITY.
>> Tucker: STORIES.
I AM ASKING FOR FACTS.
I THINK IT’S FAIR TO ASK FOR
FACTS.
RESEARCHER GOT AHOLD OF THE
CONVICTION NUMBERS WHICH THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF
ARIZONA HAS HIDDEN FROM THE
POPULATION BECAUSE IT’S
LYING TO THE POPULATION
ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF
IMMIGRATION AS YOU KNOW.
AND HE FOUND THAT ILLEGAL
IMMIGRANTS IN THE STATE OF
ARIZONA WERE MORE THAN TWICE
AS LIKELY TO COMMIT MURDER
AND OVERALL FAR MORE LIKELY
TO COMMIT CRIMES OF ALL
KINDS.
NOT IMMIGRATION CRIMES BUT
VIOLENT AND PROPERTY CRIMES.
SO GIVEN THAT THOSE ARE
FACTS, HOW CAN YOU REASSURE
THE RESIDENTS, LEGAL
RESIDENTS OF ARIZONA OF ALL
BACKGROUND THAT THIS IS GOOD
FOR THEM.
I DON’T UNDERSTAND.
>> WE IN CITIES THROUGHOUT
OUR COMMUNITY HAVE SEEN
GREAT SUCCESS STORIES WHEN
PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY CAN
WORK WITH THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND THERE IS
TRUST.
SO WE HAVE HAD FOLKS WHO DID
NOT HAVE LEGAL IMMIGRATION
STATUS BUT WERE WILLING TO
WORK WITH OUR POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND HAVE BEEN
VERY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US
PARTICULAR WHETHER I
DRUG-RELATED CRIMES.
>> Tucker: BUT DO YOU
ACKNOWLEDGE -- DO YOU
ACKNOWLEDGE THE REALITY OF
WHAT I JUST SAID SO THIS
STUDY WHICH GOT AHOLD OF
ARIZONA’S STATE NUMBERS,
WHICH I THINK ARE
LEGITIMATE, SAYS THAT PEOPLE
ILLEGALLY IN ARIZONA ARE FAR
MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT
SERIOUS CRIME.
DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT?
OR ARE YOU JUST IGNORING IT
OR WHAT’S YOUR RESPONSE TO
THAT?
>> SO I JUST RECEIVED THE
ARREST AND CRIME DATA FROM
THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR 2017
FOR THE CITY OF PHOENIX.
AND THAT WASN’T WHAT WE
FOUND IN THE CITY OF
PHOENIX.
UNFORTUNATELY, VIOLENT CRIME
WAS LED BY PEOPLE WHO LIVE
HERE AND WHO WERE BORN HERE.
>> Tucker: THAT’S NOT THE
QUESTION.
PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE
ILLEGALLY MORE LIKELY OR
LESS LIKELY TO COMMIT
SERIOUS CRIMES IN THE CITY
OF PHOENIX.
ARE YOU SAYING THEY WERE
LESS LIKELY?
I DON’T THINK THAT’S WHAT
THE NUMBERS SHOW.
>> OUR 2017 NUMBERS TELL A
VERY DIFFERENT STORY THAN
THE STORY THAT THAT
RESEARCHER IS TELLING YOU.
>> Tucker: SO YOU ROUX
SAYING JUST TO BE CLEAR ARE
YOU SAYING HAVE YOU SEEN
NUMBERS IN THE CITY OF
PHOENIX PEOPLE HERE
ILLEGALLY WERE LESS LIKELY
TO COMMIT SERIOUS CRIMES
THAN CITIZENS?
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
I WANT TO GET YOU ON THE
RECORD.
>> WE NEED COMPREHENSIVE
IMMIGRATION REFORM.
>> Tucker: OH, YOU ARE
SLIPPING OUT OF THE
QUESTION.
I AM ASKING A VERY SIMPLE
QUESTION AND YOU ARE NOT