-Welcome to the show. -Welcome. Virtual handshake.
-Virtual handshakes. The new thing. -It's very good.
Yes, virtual handshakes and Wi-Fives.
-Um... -(laughter)
Let's-let's jump straight into it.
-This is a very strange time for people. -Yes.
I will speak for myself when I say
-it is a very confusing time. -Mm-hmm.
I don't know if I should be afraid,
should not be afraid,
should be a little bit more panicked,
not panicked at all.
Where do we stand right now?
From New York, and then from what you know
about what's happening in cities around the world.
You know, uh, Franklin Roosevelt,
the famous quote,
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself"?
You know, there-there is an element of this
that is fear that's been generated beyond the facts,
-beyond the reality. -Okay.
And, so, when you really look at coronavirus, it's serious.
We have to make a lot of adjustments to address it.
But, um, it...
I worry that it's becoming sort of the cause for...
making a bunch of decisions
that actually alter all the rest of our life,
including in some very bad ways.
Let me give you an example.
-Some people are saying, "Close our schools." -Mm-hmm.
Now, we have a lot of evidence that this disease, thank God,
does not really have that much of an impact
-on healthy children. Okay? -Right.
The-the... Very sadly, the biggest impact
is on older folks with serious, preexisting medical conditions.
And when we say "older," what is that range?
-What is that? -Certainly over 50,
but I think in reality, it's much more.
We see a lot of the fatalities,
-70s, 80s kind of thing. -Right.
So, it's not to...
Look, God forbid anyone is hurt by it,
but when you think about folks saying,
"Close everything. Close schools."
When, in fact, the evidence says
our kids are, thank God, pretty safe.
-Mm-hmm. -And we want our kids to get an education.
And a lot of parents say to me,
"Our kids need the schools not just for education."
It's where they get their meals.
It's parents who don't have any other choice
where they're gonna have their kids
-if they don't have the schools. -Right, right, right.
So, it's thinking about the whole picture.
We do have to make serious adjustments,
and government has to act and people have to act.
But let's not make this the false idol.
Let's, you know, have an honest conversation
about what it is and what it isn't.
So, so, then, what is it in that regard?
Because I think what's been really tough
in America, particularly, is that from the top,
it seems like the president is slightly more concerned
with how coronavirus affects his image
as opposed to setting expectations
-for the nation. -That was, like, the nicest thing
you ever said about Donald Trump.
(laughter)
-Man, it's coronavirus. -(cheering and applause)
-You know, that... that is fair and balanced. -Coronavirus.
-Yes. -Fair and balanced.
But-but what I'm... what I'm saying is it...
I-I have noticed that, you know, we...
As-as society, we have lived through multiple pandemics.
-Yes. -We've lived through multiple epidemics.
-Yes. -The difference now being, specifically in America,
people don't know what the messaging is,
because from up top,
-it seems discombobulated at best. -There is no messaging.
-There is no messaging. -Right.
Look, we had a chance weeks and weeks ago
for the president to say, "This is a very serious thing.
"It's gonna be with us for a long time.
"You're gonna have to make some adjustments in your life.
"We're all in this together,
and we're going to get through this together."
We got everything but that.
And what the president really should have done
was get the testing out there to the local level
where we could actually get ahead of this.
They still haven't done it.
-They still haven't done it. -(cheering and applause)
So...
So, let me ask you this.
Can people get tested?
Should people get tested?
If I feel sick, should I go get t...
How-how does this even work for people in New York,
and-and how do you think it should work,
you know, scaling outward?
So, one day, I think we're gonna have
such abundant testing capacity that it's something that can be
-really broadly brought out into the population. -Mm-hmm.
But until that day, the focus on people with symptoms.
Folks who have traveled to the most affected areas.
Folks who have been in contact with someone
who does have confirmed case of coronavirus.
That's where you got to start.
But, you know, doctors can do a very initial test.
They have it right now. That's not about coronavirus.
They can tell you if your problem is something else.
-Right. -They do it all the time.
It's called a BioFire test, and it tells you
you've got all sorts of common, you know, issues.
Cold, flu, et cetera kind of things.
Um, once you know that you're sick
and it's not one of those more traditional things,
we want those folks
-to get a coronavirus test, obviously. -Got it.
So, we have a sense of priority,
and what we're finding is among the...
We have 53 people as of today who have tested positive.
A lot of them are at home.
They're-they're healthy. They're seeing it through.
They're having very limited symptoms.
Some are in the hospital. Some are in tough shape.
Others are coming out of it.
-Mm-hmm. -So, it-it's not just one thing.
But I do think the idea is, why don't we,
as a nation, mobilize all our resources,
get the testing truly to be
all over the country where it's needed,
get people tested in a really extensive manner.
Then we'll know what's what and we can get people help.
Listen, 80% of the people who get it
have very little, uh, negative experience.
-Right. -It's like cold or flu in reality.
For the other 20%, most of them have a tough time,
but they'll come out okay in the end,
except that small percentage-- and God forbid--
and that is typically the oldest
and folks who are really ill who may not make it.
Is-is it-- is it uncomfortable to say,
for a person in a leadership position,
"Hey, the people who are going to die from this thing
were the people who might have just died from anything else?"
And I'm-I'm not even saying that as, like, a joke.
But we-we've accepted that with-with certain other things
in life, where we go, like, "Hey, man,
"because of your respiratory illnesses, because of your age,
"because of this... anything-- You know,
"if you got a chest infection, it could have killed you.
If you got this, it could have killed you."
Is it hard for leaders to just say that,
"Hey, uh, yeah, you were-- you were already,
"like, on death's door, man.
This thing's just gonna take you out"?
Or do you-- do you have to, like--
Is-is that-- Does that make the messaging harder?
-'Cause it sometimes feels like, as leaders, -Right.
you guys have to be like, "Look, I mean, s-some--
It may be that some of you just..."
Whereas I-I know you can't say it,
but it would be gangster if you guys could just come out
and say, like, "Hey, if you were gonna die,
"you were gonna die,
and corona's just, like, making that happen."
Trevor, I...
I really don't think you should run for public office.
-I, um... -I agree with you.
-I... -(cheering and applause)
-I agree with you. But-but I honestly... -Yeah. Just...
Like... (stammers) like, what balance do you have to maintain
-as a leader, like, in terms of being opaque -Yeah.
versus telling people-- Like-like, you're saying,
"Don't panic," but then, at the same time, you're saying
-people must change their lives. So what does that mean? -Right.
So, I'll give you an example to your previous point.
So, my predecessor as mayor, one day,
said about kids who are danger,
kids who are in danger of child abuse, he said,
literally, at one point, we can't save every child.
Because some of it is beyond the reach of government.
They don't-- We don't even know about it until it's too late.
I heard that, and I found that chilling.
I think our goal is actually to try and save everyone, right?
Our goal is never to give up on anyone.
So that's why-- Even though I get your point
about people in public life, there's a second side of that.
Uh, we have people who are older,
who have those serious medical conditions,
who are in the hospital right now, who have coronavirus
and are fighting for their lives,
and what we should say is,
"L-Let's pray they get through.
-Let's give 'em all the help." -Mm-hmm.
And some of those folks will come through.
So you don't give up on anyone.
But the honest thing is to realize
what it is and what it isn't, right?
If it is something that,
for the vast majority of people,
doesn't have that bad an impact,
then when we're making all the other decisions--
schools, workplaces, right, subways--
you got to worry about it.
And I look at Italy.
Look at Italy now.
The entire society's shut down.
The-- People's livelihoods shot to hell.
You-- How much time is it gonna take to ever get back to normal?
And what's that gonna mean for the people
who didn't have money, couldn't afford the rent?
Their-their lives fell apart.
Their careers fell apart. All this stuff.
So you got to balance the whole equation.
And-and one thing, you know,
my public health professionals believe--
they think six months is probably a valid measure
right now of what it's gonna take us to get through this
to some kind of normal again. That could change, right?
But why don't we just level with people and say,
"We're gonna go through something together.
"It will not be easy. You're gonna have to make adjustments.
"You're actually gonna have to look out for each other.
"You're gonna have to change some of your habits.
"Like, government can't do all that for you.
We have to do a lot."
What are some of those habit changes?
Like, you know, you sneeze like this.
-Got it. -Right? You do the elbow bump.
And if you're sick-- here's a crucial one--
how many of us-- how many of you have gone to work
when you are sick? Right?
Everybody. The American ethic--
Not you, God bless you.
You don't come from here.
So, you come from a part of the world,
people think they're sick, they don't have to work.
-In America, what do we do? We power through, right? -Yes.
Don't do that. If you get sick, stay home.
-That's really different. -If-- But-but that's if you can afford
-to stay home. -Well, we have paid sick days in New York City,
which is something I'm very proud of.
Passed in my administration.
Five days, paid sick days, every year.
So you can take care of yourself
-and your family. -Okay, okay.
-(cheering and applause) -Okay. -We should have that
-all over America. -Right.
So, in fact, in those five days,
you're gonna find out if your disease resolves,
which is a lot-- colds, flus kind of thing--
-or if it's something worse. -And then let me
ask you this then. Are there any plans
to cancel gatherings and events in the city?
So, for instance, a lot of shows are saying that, hey,
from next week, we're gonna be-- we won't be having audiences.
Um, some people are saying, "Is New York gonna shut down
sporting events?" For instance, the Golden State Warriors said,
hey, there's gonna be no fans at their game.
I'm assuming Knicks fans
would hope the same thing will happen to them.
Um...
-Are you planning to cancel... -I-I got--
I got a mercy request from the Knicks.
(chuckles): Uh, you know?
"Please save us from ourselves."
-But, uh... (laughs) -(laughs)
Um, look,
the one thing I worry about is the cascading effect.
It's one thing to come up with clear criteria,
and we intend to do this very shortly,
that says, "Here's the kind of adjustments we need."
But what I worry about is,
they become no longer about health and facts,
but they become sort of a rush to the exits.
And again, you're seeing major nations
in states of shutdown.
That would be devastating for the United States.
It would be devastating for New York City.
So how do you strike a balance and say,
"Okay, first of all, the folks who are sick...
-If you're sick, don't go to anything." -Mm-hmm.
Uh, if you're older,
and you have those preexisting conditions--
cancer, diabetes, etcetera--
don't go out to major events or any place with a crowd,
because you're just so vulnerable, right?
But for healthy people, how do we create some standards
of the kind of places you can be
and, you know, create some balance?
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -That's what we're trying to do.
You still can spend time with people.
I-I don't want a situation where folks feel
they can't go out and do anything.
That is not a winning equation.
It's what's the kind of situation
where you're not too crowded?
-Yes. -There a little more space.
Uh, a little more, uh, safety in that dynamic.
I think we can come up with that standard,
keep our economy going, keep people healthy,
and-and we're gonna ride it out.
And if everyone participates...
The other thing we're saying to people is,
"You got to look out for each other."
If you're a grandparent,
and you want to go visit your grandchildren,
you know, it's important for folks to say,
"I know you want to do that,
but right now might not be the right time."
-Right. -The kids are not feeling well
or something like that.
How do you sort of create some balance?
If you have a-a neighbor, uh,
who is not doing so well in life, right--
they're-they're older, they're not so healthy--
how do you help 'em out?
-Maybe you bring 'em meals, right? -Right.
So they don't have to go out and be vulnerable.
It's a kind of... It's a little bit more
of a communal solution than just a governmental solution.
And, actually, what we find with New Yorkers--
and I think this is true all over America--
in crisis, people actually get very generous.
They get very kind and compassionate.
And they find something in themselves
that we often don't see in our society.
If everyone steps up-- a little bit of change your own life,
a little bit of looking out for other people--
we can actually get through this.
-We actually can. -Let me ask you one last question then.
The president has said to people,
"I don't think we should panic.
"Uh, you know, I don't know if this thing is gonna be that bad.
It could go down to zero."
-And people have criticized him for some of that. -Yes.
But what would you say is the key difference
in your messaging versus his?
'Cause some would say, "Oh, but that's what Trump is saying.
"He's saying everyone should calm down,
things are gonna go back to normal."
What is the key messaging difference
that you think the president may be missing out on?
So you know your history, and you know,
they used to say, when a nation would go to war,
"Don't worry. It'll be a really quick war,
-and the boys'll be home by Christmas." -Mm-hmm.
Or famously, George W. Bush, on the aircraft carrier
-with "Mission accomplished" for Iraq. -Of course. Of course.
First of all, the president of the United States has committed,
I think, a fundamental, uh, sin here
in terms of being a leader by not saying to people,
"You know what? This'll take a lot of work, sacrifice.
"This is gonna be with us a long time.
There's no instant gratification here."
He abrogated his responsibility to tell people the truth.
And, you know, when he said,
"Oh, you know, when the warm weather comes, it'll go away,"
-I mean, what the hell was that? -(laughter)
I mean, that's not even... that's not even b...
There's no science anywhere near that, right?
I mean, that's even more
-than his other unscientific statements. -(laughter)
So, the... I think it is crucial to be honest with people.
It's not gonna be easy.
It's not gonna be, um, a simple thing to deal with.
It's not catastrophic.
It doesn't mean the end of civilization.
Because you want...
You know, you know they say,
-consumer confidence about the economy. -Mm-hmm.
-Well, there's almost societal conf... confidence. -Right.
People have to believe that we can get through it.
They have to believe that things can still function
so they want to participate.
You don't want parents scared to send their kids to school.
You don't want people scared to go to work.
You don't want our public servants scared
to go and come help us--
our first responders, our health care professionals.
So you have to strike a balance.
But I actually find people respond a lot better
to real talk.
So, it's a big deal, it's gonna be with us a long time.
It's gonna take sacrifice, it's gonna take adjustment.
But it is not Armageddon,
despite the excellent, uh, montage
you and I talked about with your "How..."
Oh, yeah, like I said, "Is this how we die?"
-This is... this is how we die. -Right. Right.
-Yes. -Right. It's not actually that.
-Right. -It actually isn't.
And-and, you know, I think
an honest conversation is actually calming.
I think telling people... You know, we tell...
We did a thing here in New York every day.
We say, "Here are the numbers."
We try and give them a sense of what's happening to people.
-Mm-hmm. -We try and be really honest
about what we know and what we don't know.
I think that's another thing. People want to hear the truth.
And sometimes, "I know what I don't know"
is the most honest statement you can make.
Right.
And so, nobody on Earth fully understands this disease.
It's brand-new.
But we know enough to know that we can fight it
and that we can deal with it, and we also know it is not...
-Look, we had Ebola in New York City. -Mm-hmm.
-Uh, let me tell you... -I brought it. I know.
-Okay. Um, Trevor... -(laughter)
Trevor, I really have an issue with that,
-(laughter) -and I've been wanting to talk.
I was like, "I know you wanted publicity,
"but this is not the right way to go about it,
bringing Ebola to New York City."
So, but, you know, that's like...
you say hello to someone and everyone dies, right?
-Yes. Yes. -I mean, that's a staggering disease.
We had it here-- you know, New Yorkers were amazing.
The patient who had it was at Bellevue Hospital,
and those doctors and nurses and technicians,
everyone was, like, they showed up for work,
they were ready to go, they were ready to fight this thing back,
and all New Yorkers saw that and took confidence
-and went on about their lives. -Right.
That was Ebola.
So, you know what? That's...
There's something about being a leader
where you don't discourage people from having...
faith and strength and-and create fear.
Nor do you tell them, "Oh, you know, just...
"look away from the problem-- it's all gonna be fine,
it's gonna be done by April."
You got to tell people truth,
and then invite them to be part of the solution.
And that's what we're trying to do here.
Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
-Really appreciate it. -All right.
Mayor Bill de Blasio, everybody.