GOOD EVENING, I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS IN LOS ANGELES.
THE BIG NEWS TODAY IS MICHAEL
COHEN HAS NEW EVIDENCE AGAINST
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. IN A FOLLOWUP TO HIS EXPLOSIVE
TESTIMONY LAST WEEK, COHEN TODAY
APPEARED BEFORE THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE IN AN
ALL-DAY BACK ROOM HEARING.
HERE’S COHEN --
>> HEARINGS WENT VERY, VERY
WELL.
WELL. I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THE
MEMBERS WERE SATISFIED WITH THE
STATEMENTS AND THE RESPONSES
THAT I GAVE TO THEM.
I TOLD THEM THAT ANY ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION THAT THEY WANT THEY
SHOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE TO REACH
OUT TO MY COUNSEL, AND I WOULD
CONTINUE TO COOPERATE TO THE
FULLEST EXCEPT OF MY
CAPABILITIES.
CAPABILITIES. >> WELL, TODAY’S HEARING WAS
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, MULTIPLE
REPORTS INDICATED COHEN SHOWED
UP TODAY WITH NEW EVIDENCE TO
BACK HIS ALLEGATION THAT THE
PRESIDENT’S OWN LAWYERS EDITED
HIS FALSE STATEMENTS TO CONGRESS
IN 2017.
IN 2017. COHEN PLEADED ABOUT THE TO
MAKING THAT FALSE STATEMENT TO
COVER UP THE TIMING OF THE
PRESIDENT’S EFFORTS TO BUILD
TRUMP TOWER IN MOSCOW.
HERE’S COHEN LAST WEEK SAYING
TRUMP’S LAWYERS CHANGED THAT KEY
PART OF HIS FALSE TESTIMONY.
>> WHICH SPECIFIC LAWYERS WE
VIEWED AND EDITED YOUR STATEMENT
TO CONGRESS ON THE MOSCOW TOWER
NEGOTIATIONS, AND DID THEY MAKE
ANY CHANGES TO YOUR STATEMENT?
>> THERE WERE CHANGES MADE,
ADDITIONS.
ADDITIONS. JAY SEKULOW FOR ONE.
>> WERE THERE CHANGES ABOUT THE
TIMING?
TIMING? >> SEVERAL CHANGES INCLUDING HOW
WERE THEY GOING TO HANDLE THAT
MESSAGE, AND THE MESSAGE, OB,
BEING THE LENGTH OF TIME THE
TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW PROJECT
STAYED ALIVE.
STAYED ALIVE. >> TRUMP ATTORNEY JAY SEKULOW
DENIED THE PRESS’S LEGAL TEAM
MADE THOSE EDITS.
HOWEVER, NBC NEWS IS NOW
REPORTING COHEN TODAY BACKED UP
HIS ALLEGATION WITH NEW
DOCUMENTS THAT SHOW EDITS TO THE
FALSE WRITTEN STATEMENTS HE MADE
TO CONGRESS.
TO CONGRESS. NOT ONLY THAT BUT "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" HAS NOW ACQUIRED EIGHT OF
THE 11 CHECKS THE PRESIDENT USED
TO REIMBURSE COHEN FOR HIS
ILLEGAL HUSH PAYMENTS TO STORMY
DANIELS.
DANIELS. THERE THEY ARE.
IN OTHER WORDS, COHEN LEFT A
PAPER TRAIL THAT COULD BE A
TREASURE TROVE TO INVESTIGATORS.
THIS COMES AS A NEW QUINNIPIAC
POLL SHOWS THAT 64% OF
AMERICANS, ALMOST TWO-THIRDS,
SAID THEY BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT
COMMITTED CRIMES BEFORE HE
BECAME PRESIDENT.
BECAME PRESIDENT. THE SAME POLL SHOWS THAT
AMERICANS VIEW MICHAEL COHEN,
WHO PLEADED GUILTY TO LYING, AS
BEING MORE HONEST THAN PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
TRUMP. CATCH THESE NUMBERS, 50% OF
AMERICANS SAY THEY BELIEVE COHEN
MORE THAN HIS FORMER BOSS, WHILE
35% SAID THEY BELIEVE THE
PRESIDENT OVER COHEN.
THAT’S A BAD NUMBER FOR THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. JOINING ME IS DEMOCRATIC
CONGRESSWOMAN JACKIE SPEIER WHO
WAS IN THAT HOUSE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE HEARING TODAY, PETER
BAKER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE
CORRESPONDENT FOR "THE NEW YORK
TIMES,".
TIMES,". THANK YOU ALL FOR DIFFERENT
PERSPECTIVES.
PERSPECTIVES. CONGRESSWOMAN, ARE YOU WITH THE
PUBLIC ON THIS THAT BELIEVES
MORE OF COHEN THAN THEY DO OF
TRUMP IN
TRUMP IN >> WITHOUT A DOUBT.
WITHOUT A DOUBT.
>> WHAT ABOUT TODAY, WE’RE
GETTING A REPORT TODAY THAT HE
DOUBLED DOWN SAYING THE
PRESIDENT’S LAWYERS CUT OUT,
PERHAPS IN THIS CASE, PUT HIM
THERE TO DO THAT AND HELPED HIM
LIE TO CONGRESS.
YOUR THOUGHTS?
YOUR THOUGHTS? >> I WOULD SAY THE DOCUMENTATION
THAT HE PROVIDED US TODAY WILL
HELP US COME TO THE CONCLUSIONS
THAT WE WILL NEED TO MAKE ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN
EFFORT TO MANIPULATE THE INFORMA
SO I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO
POINT OUT IT WAS MICHAEL COHEN
WHO SAID BOTH THAT THE OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEE HEARING AND TO THIS
COMMITTEE THAT HE WOULD MAKE
AVAILABLE THE DOCUMENTS TO
SUPPORT HIS POSITIONS.
>> WHAT THIS TELLS THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE ARE TWO THINGS TODAY YOU
MAY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET
CONFIRMED, PROBABLY DID TODAY IN
THE BACKDOOR HEARINGS, NUMBER
ONE IS THE PRESIDENT WHILE HE
WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, WAS
BASICALLY ALL THE TIME PLAYING
BIG-SHOT BUSINESSMAN WITH
MOSCOW, TRYING TO BUILD AN
EMPIRE BUILDING OVER THERE, A
BILL LAND MARK BUILDING IN
MOSCOW ACROSS THE RED SQUARE AT
THE SAME TIME HE’S TELLING THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE HE WILL BE THEIR
TRUE REPRESENTATIVE DEALING WITH
A DIFFICULT COUNTRY, RUSSIA.
WE’RE ALSO FINDING OUT WHILE
HE’S PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES, MEETING ON THE PHONE
WITH PUTIN AND OTHERS, BEING
PRESIDENT, HE’S ALSO SIGNING
CHECKS ON A REGULAR BASIS TO PAY
OFF FOR STORMY DANIELS.
ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON, THIS
MULTITASKING, WHAT DOES IT TELL
YOU?
YOU? >> WELL, IT TELLS ME THIS IS
NOTHING NEW FOR DONALD TRUMP.
IT STARTS VERY YOUNG IN HIS LIFE
IN WHICH HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO
BEAT THE SYSTEM.
I THINK WHAT WE’RE GOING TO FIND
OUT OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IS
THAT HE’S PLAYED EVERY CARD TO
EITHER SUBORN PERJURY AND CREATE
A CONSPIRACY TO DO SO.
I THINK WHATS GOING TO HAUPT SON
MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED
WITH DONALD TRUMP IS WHAT
MICHAEL COHEN SAID IN THE
OPENING TESTIMONY, THAT IF YOU
DON’T WATCH OUT, YOU’RE GOING TO
BE IN THE SAME POSITION THAT I
AM, GOING TO PRISON.
>> DO WE HAVE A BASICALLY
DISHONEST MAN IN THE WHITE
HOUSE?
HOUSE? >> WITHOUT A DOUBT.
>> LET ME GO TO DONNY DEUTSCHE
ON THIS THING ABOUT THE WAY IN
WHICH THE PRESIDENT’S LAWYERS,
THERE WERE CUTOUTS, TWO PEOPLE
WHO HAD DISTANCE FROM THE
PRESIDENT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS
EDITING MICHAEL COHEN’S
TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS WITH
REGARD TO THE TIMING,
ESPECIALLY, FOR THIS WORK FOR
THE TRUMP TOWER IN MOSCOW.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIS BACKING
THAT UP AGAIN TODAY WITH
DOCUMENTS?
DOCUMENTS? >> FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO
ANSWER YOUR QUESTION TO THE
CONGRESSWOMAN, YOU HAVE A
SPECTACULARLY CRIMINAL MAN IN
THE WHITE HOUSE.
ANYBODY WHO’S BEEN IN NEW YORK
CITY 20 YEARS -- WORKED IN NEW
YORK CITY LIKE I HAVE, KNOWN
DONALD TRUMP FOR 20 YEARS, HE’S
AS DISHONEST AND SLIMIEST AS
THEY COME AND THIS IS JUST THE
BEGINNING.
BEGINNING. AS FAR AS MICHAEL, WHEN PEOPLE
DOUBT MICHAEL, ANYTHING HE SAID,
YOU HAVE TO GO INTO HIS MINDSET
GOING INTO THIS.
MICHAEL HAD EVERYTHING TO LOSE
AND NOTHING TO GAIN.
IF HE TELLS THE TRUTH, HE GETS A
GOLD STAR BUT HE’S STILL GOING
TO PRISON FOR 30 MONTHS.
IF HE LIES -- WE KEEP IN MIND
THERE’S 70 HOURS WITH MUELLER,
DOZENS AND DOZENS OF HOURS WITH
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT, HOURS
WITH CONGRESS AND THE SENATE,
THE LAST THING HE’S GOING TO
COME IN AND LIE AGAIN, BECAUSE
HE WILL GET MORE PRISON TIME.
WHEN HE SAYS SOMETHING IN FRONT
OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE,
SOMETHING AS POTENT AS BASICALLY
THEY EDITED MY STATEMENT, HERE
IS MY STATEMENT, HE’S NOT LYING.
HE
HE USE COMMON SENSE.
THAT MAD IS TELLING THE TRUTH.
>> BASICALLY THE PRESIDENT IS
SUBVERTING PERJURY HERE?
>> THAT WILL BE THE SMALLEST OF
HIS CRIMES, CHRIS.
I HAVE SAID THIS FOR A LONG
TIME.
TIME. IT’S NOT ABOUT MUELLER, IT’S THE
TRUMP ORGANIZATION, AN
ENTERPRISE THAT WILL BE RICO,
THE RACKETEER INFLUENCING
CORRUPTION ACT, ABOUT
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THIS THAT ARE
CRIME ORGANIZATIONS, ANY WAY A
PERSON CAN LIE AND CHEAT AND
STEAL FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE,
DONALD TRUMP HAS.
THIS IS JUST GOING TO BE A
PIMPLE.
PIMPLE. >> ALLTHE RICO STATUTE WAS USED
AGAINST ORGANIZED CRIME.
IT WAS WRITTEN BY THE CONGRESS
SO THEY COULD CATCH GUYS LIKE
CAPONE, MODERN CHARACTER IN THE
SIPPED KIT, WHO BASICALLY SENDS
SIGNALS THROUGH INDIRECTION, WHO
TALKS LIKE TRUMP DOES, HE SAYS
HERE’S WHAT ISN’T THE TRUTH, AS
I HEAR IT.
SO YOU GIVE IT THE WAY I’M JUST
GIVING IT TO YOU.
IT ISN’T LIKE DO THIS, IT’S THIS
IS THE WORD WE’VE GOT TO PUT
OUT.
OUT. SO IT’S ALL BY INDIRECTION.
ALL OF THIS CRIME GETS DONE BY A
LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITHOUT
THE PERSON’S FINGERPRINTS BEING
ON THEM.
ON THEM. HE DOESN’T HAVE HIS FINGERPRINTS
ON THE GUN.
THAT’S WHAT RICO IS ABOUT, AND
YOU SAY IT APPLIES HERE?
>> BASICALLY, RUDY GIULIANI
IRONICALLY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
TO USE IT.
IT’S SET UP WHEN YOU HAVE
MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE CRIMES, IN
THE CASE OF TRUMP I BELIEVE BANK
FRAUD, MONEY LAUNDERING,
CAMPAIGN FINANCE, THE TRUMP
UNIVERSITY, THE FOUNDATION, THE
INAUGURATION, TONS AND TONS AND
TONS AND BASIC BUSINESSES
PRACTICE OF THEM ALL.
YOU PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER AND AS
YOU SAID THE CENTER GUY, THE MOB
BOSS, IS ISOLATED.
THIS TAKES THAT OFF THE TABLE
AND HE’S RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF
THE CRIMES.
THE CRIMES. THE OTHER PIECE TO YOU CAN ALSO
TAKE BACK ASSETS.
THEY CAN TAKE HIS BUILDINGS
AWAY.
AWAY. I THINK IT WILL ALWAYS END IN
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT.
THEY DON’T JUST WANT TO TAKE
THIS GUY OUT, THEY WANT TO TAKE
HIM DOWN.
HIM DOWN. HE TRIED TO UNDUE WHAT HIS
FOREFATHERS DID AND STARTS TO
SEND A SIGNAL ABOUT WHO WE ARE
AS A COUNTRY.
>> TOUGH STUFF.
PETER BAKER, THE EXPERT OF "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS YOUR
ARTICLE TODAY THAT THE
PRESIDENT’S REIMBURSEMENT
PRESIDENT’S REIMBURSEMENT PAYMENTS TO MICHAEL COHEN ARE
DATED THE SAME DAYS HE WAS
ATTENDING TO PUBLIC PRESIDENTIAL
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. AND ONE OF THE CHECKS TRUMP
SIGNED WAS DATED MAY 23, 2017,
THE SAME DAY HE WAS OVERSEAED
WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IN ISRAEL.
THERE HE IS.
THAT DAY HE WAS SIGNING CHECKS
TO COVER UP FOR STORMY.
ANOTHER CHECK FOR STORMY IS
DATED SEPTEMBER 12th OF THAT
YEAR, THE DAY TRUMP WAS HOSTING
THE PRIME MINISTER OF MALAYSIA
AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
ANOTHER IS DATED THE SAME DAY
THAT THE PRESIDENT HELD A
CEREMONY OF TURKEY, REMEMBER
THAT THANKSGIVING THING THEY DO,
AND SPOKE BY PHONE TO VLADIMIR
PUTIN.
PUTIN. FURTHERMORE, ONE OF THE
REIMBURSEMENT CHECKS ISSUED BY
TRUMP WAS ISSUED FEBRUARY 14,
THE SAME DAY TRUMP ASKED JAMES
COMEY TO DROP HIS INVESTIGATION
OF MICHAEL FLYNN.
THIS INTERTWINING OF BEHAVIOR,
POTENTIALLY CRIMINAL, IN THE
SMALL STUFF AFFAIRS, SEXUAL
ESCAPADES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO
CALL THEM AND AT THE SAME TIME
HE’S DEALING WITH THE BIG STUFF
WE’RE WONDERING ABOUT, WHAT THE
HELL IS HE DOING WITH PUTIN AND
WHY, AND HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO
TRUMP TOWER?
TRUMP TOWER? IT’S ALL CONNECTED AND YOU SHOW
IT’S CONNECTED IN TIME AS WELL.
>> IT’S VERY INTERESTING, YOU
SEE THESE PARALLEL LIVES HE’S
LEADING WHILE SITTING PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES IS NOT JUST
THAT THERE WAS MONEY PAID TO
STORMY DANIELS DURING THE
CAMPAIGN, IT’S HE WAS STILL
PAYING IT OFF FOR THE FIRST YEAR
OF HIS PRESIDENCY.
ONCE A MONTH HE WOULD SIGN A
CHECK FOR $30,000 TO MICHAEL
COHEN TO REIMBURSE HIM FOR THIS
MONEY.
MONEY. AND IT DID SEEM TO COINCIDE WITH
JUST EVENTS ON HIS CALENDAR THAT
SHOW YOU THE DICHOTOMY BETWEEN A
PRESIDENT ACTING AS HEAD OF
STATE AND A BUSINESSMAN WHO IS
SIGNING CHECKS TO A LAWYER
BECAUSE HE’S TRYING TO FIX SOME
EVENT THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AND
DIDN’T WANT IT TO COME OUT
BEFORE THE ELECTION.
AND THESE TWO PARA-LEMLLEL STORY
LINES TAKE YOU THROUGH THIS