OR WE CAN GET SOMEONES
TRANSGRESSIONS THAT ARE EVEN
WORSE.
>> ABDULLAH, WHAT I THOUGHT
ABOUT, WHEN I READ THE PIECE,
AND ITS SO BRILLIANT IN ITS
GROUNDING IN THE RULE OF LAW AND
WHATS BEEN LOST, ITS NOT JUST
OUR FOUNDERS WHO WOULD BE, I
THINK, HORRIFIED AT WHAT HAS
BEEN SORT OF PERVERTED AND
DISTORTED BUT YOU DONT EVEN
HAVE TO GO BACK THAT FAR.
YOU LOOK AT WATERGATE WHERE
REPUBLICANS WERE ABLE TO BE
COMPELLED BY FACTS OF
CRIMINALITY, AND IT SEEMS THAT
THAT IS WHERE OUR CURRENT LAWS
AND POLICIES DO NOT SERVE ANY
COMMITMENT TO THE RULE OF LAW.
>> YEAH, THATS EXACTLY RIGHT,
NICOLE, AND THANKS FOR HAVING ME
ON.
YOU KNOW, WITH WATERGATE AND
RICHARD NIXON, THERES
ESPECIALLY ONE KEY DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THAT AND THE TRUMP ERA,
AND THATS THE ABILITY TO FEEL
SHAME.
ONE THING THAT ALLOWED TRUMP TO
GET AWAY WITH SO MUCH IS THAT HE
WAS UTTERLY SHAMELESS AND JUST
PUSHED THROUGH ALL THE, YOU
KNOW, NORM BREAKING AND LAW
BREAKING ACTS OF HIS WHITE HOUSE
AND ALL THE INVESTIGATIONS AND
JUST, YOU KNOW, POWER THROUGH IT
AND HE GOT AWAY WITH IT.
AND SO, THATS WHY THIS IS
REALLY IMPORTANT TO STILL GO
AFTER, EVEN AFTER HES OUT OF
OFFICE.
YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT A
LOT OF AMERICANS WANT TO MOVE ON
FROM TRUMP AND NEVER LOOK BACK.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ITS -- IT WAS
A VERY NORM-BREAKING,
NORM-BUSTING TIME.
EACH DAY PRESENTED, AS YOU VERY
WELL KNOW, A NEW CRISIS OR TWO,
AND IT WAS INCREDIBLY
OVERWHELMING, BUT YOU KNOW, WE
CANT JUST MOVE ON FROM THE
TRUMP ERA WITHOUT STUDYING
EXACTLY WHAT WENT WRONG AND HOW
IT WENT WRONG.
AND IF WE DO THAT, THAT WOULD BE
PROFOUNDLY IRRESPONSIBLE.
WE WERE SHOWN THAT THERE ARE
LOOPHOLES IN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL
SYSTEM.
WEVE BEEN SHOWN JUST HOW WEAK
OUR CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE
AGAINST A TYRANNICAL PRESIDENT,
AND SO ITS OUR OBLIGATION AS
JOURNALISTS, AS VOTERS, AS, YOU
KNOW, LAWMAKERS IN CONGRESS TO
ACTUALLY ADDRESS THAT AND FIX
THAT, AND THATS REALLY WHY WE
WROTE THIS SERIES, TO URGE
LAWMAKERS, YOU KNOW, BEYOND THE
DOJ PROSECUTING TRUMP IF THEY
HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE, BUT TO
URGE LAWMAKERS TO PASS A SET OF
REFORMS TO RESTRAIN FUTURE
PRESIDENTS FROM ABUSING THEIR
POWER, AND IF CONGRESS FAILS TO
DO THAT, THEN YOU KNOW, THE END
OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACYS IN OUR
LIFETIME, AND I DONT SAY THAT
JUST TO, YOU KNOW, BE HYPERBOLIC
OR ALARMIST ABOUT THIS.
I SAY THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
ALREADY, WERE SEEING THE
EROSION OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
ACCELERATE AFTER TRUMP LEFT
OFFICE, STATE AFTER STATE AFTER
STATE, THE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATURES, YOU KNOW, JUST
GOING AFTER OUR VOTING RIGHTS,
AND CONGRESS, WITH THE HELP OF
JOE MANCHIN, REFUSING TO PROTECT
US.
AND REFUSING TO PROTECT VOTING
RIGHTS.
AND SO THE NEXT TRUMP -- AND I
WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT
THIS -- THE NEXT TRUMP THAT
COULD BE TRUMP HIMSELF IN 2024
OR A FAR MORE COMPETENT
AUTHORITARIAN LEADER, YOU KNOW,
WILL HAVE A MUCH EASIER TIME
USURPING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THE ROAD MAP
HAS BEEN LAID OUT FOR THEM VERY
CLEARLY.
>> AND YOU WILL BE ONE OF THE
PEOPLE, IF THAT HAPPENS, WHO,
YOU KNOW, WHOEVER COMES DOWN AND
DISCOVERS THE REMNANTS OF THIS
ERA IN TIME CAPSULES, WHO
PREDICTED IT AND SAW HOW IT WAS
ALL GOING TO PLAY OUT.
I WANT TO READ SOME MORE FROM
YOUR -- FROM THE REALLY
IMPORTANT EDITORIAL.
YOU GUYS WRITE THIS.
AFTER THE PRECEDENT-BUSTING
PRESIDENCY OF DONALD TRUMP,
CONGRESS NEEDS TO PASS NEW LAWS
TO CONSTRAIN FUTURE OFFICE
HOLDERS.
THATS THE CASE THE GLOBE HAS
MADE IN THIS SERIES, CURB SOME
PARDON POWER, BROADENING THE
POWER OF CONGRESS TO INVESTIGATE
THE PRESIDENT, PROTECTIONS FOR
WHISTLE-BLOWERS, REQUIREMENTS
THAT PRESIDENTS MAKE FINANCIAL
DISCLOSURES TO ROOT OUT
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.
ALL OF THAT IS CRUCIAL TO
PROTECT AMERICANS AGAINST A
REPEAT OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
ABDALLAH, I THINK WE NEED TO
DIVE INTO THESE SEPARATELY BUT
LETS JUST TAKE A COUPLE, PARDON
POWER AND NEPOTISM.
IM SURPRISED HE DIDNT COMBINE
THE TWO IN THE END. PLACING HIS SON-IN-LAW AND
PLACING HIS SON-IN-LAW AND
DAUGHTER INSIDE THAT INNER SANK
TUM
SANCTITY
SANCTUM, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM OF
EVERY CHIEF OF STAFF AND REINCE
PRIEBUS, JOHN KELLY, THEY TRIED
IN VARYING DEGREES TO GET THIS
PRESIDENT TO SORT OF ADHERE TO
SOME THE NORMS, I WONT EVEN SAY
RULE OF LAW, ITS NOT CLEAR THEY
HAD THAT MUCH SWAY WITH HIM, BUT
IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO -- WE
CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
I MEAN, ITS NOT A PROSECUTE
DONALD TRUMP FOR OBSTRUCTION FOR
BEING NAMED INDIVIDUAL ONE IN
SDNY FOR THE CRIMINAL CAMPAIGN
FINANCE CASE THAT SENT MICHAEL
COHEN TO JAIL.
YOU CAN CHOOSE A FUTURE WHERE
THE PRESIDENTS CORRUPT AND
UNQUALIFIED SON-IN-LAW AND
DAUGHTER DONT RUN THE COUNTRY.
DO YOU THINK THERES ANY
ENTHUSIASM BEHIND PASSING NEP
NEPOTISM LAWS OR CURBS TO A
PRESIDENTS POWER?
>> THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANTED TO
MAKE CLEAR THROUGHOUT THE
SERIES.
REFORMING AND RESTRAINING FUTURE
PRESIDENTS OUGHT TO BE A
BIPARTISAN CAUSE.
THIS ISNT A PARTISAN ISSUE.
CORRUPTION DOESNT KNOW A SINGLE
PARTY.
THE NEXT TRUMP MIGHT BE A
DEMOCRAT.
OBVIOUSLY, THE TWO PARTIES
ARENT EQUAL, AND THERES AN
ASYMMETRY IN WHICH ONE ACTUALLY
WANTS TO ABANDON DEMOCRACY AND
THATS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, SO
ITS LIKELY THAT THE NEXT TYRANT
WILL BE A REPUBLICAN, BUT YOU
KNOW, ITS VERY POSSIBLE THAT A
CORRUPT PRESIDENT BE A DEMOCRAT,
SO REPUBLICANS OUGHT TO BE VERY
INTERESTED IN RESTRAINING FUTURE
PRESIDENTS FROM ABUSING THEIR
POWER.
OTHERWISE, THEYLL BE, AS WELL,
LOCKED OUT OF THE SYSTEM, AND WE
WILL SEE AMERICAN DEMOCRACY END.
SO, YOU KNOW, NEPOTISM IS REALLY
IMPORTANT WHEN IT CAME TO DONALD
TRUMPS PRESIDENCY.
I MEAN, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
SUFFERED.
ONE THING WE SAID IN THE SERIES
WAS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT SURVIVED
A SCRAPE WITH AUTHORITARIANISM
BUT THE REALITY IS MANY OF US
DIDNT SURVIVE.
BY SOME ESTIMATES, NEARLY A
MILLION AMERICANS DIED FROM THE
CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, AND THATS
IN PART BECAUSE JARED KUSHNER,
DONALD TRUMPS SON-IN-LAW, WAS,
YOU KNOW, LEADING, IN PART, PART
OF THE LEADERSHIP BEHIND THE
GOVERNMENTS CORONAVIRUS
RESPONSE TEAM WITH NO PRIOR
EXPERIENCE.
HE WAS A REAL ESTATE
BUSINESSMAN.
WHAT WAS THIS GUY DOING LEADING
OUR PANDEMIC RESPONSE?
AND NOW HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
LIVES ARE LOST.
AND THOSE PEOPLE WILL NOT GET A
SECOND CHANCE.
YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE OF US WHO
REMAIN AND ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO
STILL VOTE, WE HAVE TO ACT ON
THIS NOW.
IF WE DONT, THEN, YOU KNOW,
THIS -- THIS IS -- ITS REALLY
URGENT TO DO IT NOW.
IF WE DONT, WERE GOING TO SEE
ANOTHER AUTHORITARIAN COME AND
EVEN IMPROVE ON TRUMPS ABILITY