TAX AND IMPOSING 15% MINIMUM TAX
ON REPORTED INCOME.
JOINING ME NOW IS SEEN F FORMER
SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE CLINTONS,
NBC PARTNERS CEO, MARK PENN P.
MARK, GREAT TO SEE YOU.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
WHEN WE SPOKE LAST WEEK WE
TALKED ABOUT ALL OF THIS
MISLABELING, CALLING A
$1.9 TRILLION SPENDING PACKAGE A
COVID PLAN.
IT WAS ONLY 10% CO-INDIVIDUAL.
NOW WE HAVE THIS PLAN WHICH HE’S
CALLING AN INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN
BUT IT’S ONLY 25%
INFRASTRUCTURE.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD CALL
THIS.
IS THIS A GREEN NEW DEAL?
>> WELL, I THINK YOU WOULD CALL
THIS THE ERA OF BIG GOVERNMENT
IS BACK.
YOU MAY REMEMBER WHEN I WAS
WORKING WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON,
THE WHOLE CONCEPT WAS TO NOT
NECESSARILY INTRUDE IN THE
PRIVATE SECTOR.
INSTEAD, THIS IS ENORMOUS
EXPANSION OF BIG GOVERNMENT.
IS IT INFRASTRUCTURE?
SOME OF IT IS INFRASTRUCTURE, AS
PEOPLE THINK OF IT AS ROADS AND
BRIDGES AND IN TODAY’S WORLD THE
INTERNET BUT A LOT OF IT IS NOT
AND THE QUESTION IS WILL THERE
EVEN BE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS
OR HE REGULAR ORDER TO DISCUSS
ONE OF THE LARGEST BILLS IN THE
HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY?
MARIA: AND IT’S ALSO GOING TO
COME WITH THE LARGEST TAX
INCREASE SINCE FDR.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE
MOST SPENDING AND TAX INCREASES
THAT MANY OF US HAVE EVER SEEN,
MARK.
>> WELL, 56% IN THIS MONTH
HARVARD’S HARRIS POLL SAID IN
FACT THIS IS A RETURN TO BIG
GOVERNMENT, WELFARE STATE.
I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE WALKING A
VERY DIFFICULT LINE HERE IN
TERMS OF THE PUBLIC WANTING
COVID RELIEF, WANTING
INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT INSTEAD
GETTING BILLS OF ENORMOUS
MAGNITUDE THAT INCLUDE ALL SORTS
OF OTHER PROGRAMS THAT THEY MAY
OR MAY NOT EVEN COME TO
UNDERSTAND AND AT A CERTAIN
POINT PEOPLE ARE VERY WORRIED
THAT INFLATION, THAT IN EFFECT
THE TREASURY COULD BE LOOTED AND
THE ECONOMY WRECKED.
I THINK THERE’S SOME BIG ISSUES
HERE THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
NEED TO DISCUSS.
MARIA: ALL AS WE LOOK, DAGEN
McDOWELL, AT A DEBT, TOTAL
DEBT NUMBER RIGHT NOW THAT THE
U.S. IS FACING OF $28 TRILLION,
DAGEN.
DAGEN: RIGHT.
BUT THE DEBT DOESN’T MATTER.
SEE, WITH MODERN MONETARY
THEORY, WHICH WAS PUSHED BY THE
FAR LEFT LIKE BERNIE SANDERS AND
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, THE
FED CAN JUST KEEP PRINTING MONEY
AND THEN BUY OUR DEBT SO IT EVEN
BEGS THE QUESTION OF WHY DO YOU
EVEN NEED TO RAISE TAXES, MARK.
AND THIS SEEMS LIKE KIND OF A
TWO-FOLD HYPER LEFT WING IDEA.
ONE, YOU RAISE TAXES BECAUSE YOU
WANT TO PUNISH -- IT’S PUNITIVE.
I WANT TO PUNISH THE PEOPLE THAT
THE LEFT HATE, THE WEALTHY, JOB
CREATORS, MAYBE EVENTUALLY IF
YOU WANT TO DRIVE AN AUTOMOBILE
WITH AN INTERNAL COMBUSTION
ENGINE, YOU PUNISH THEM AS WELL.
BUT YOU ALSO HAVE A GOVERNMENT
TAKEOVER OF DECISION MAKING.
YOU TAKE POWER AWAY FROM PRIVATE
BUSINESSES, PRIVATE OWNERS, AND
THE INDIVIDUAL.
THIS IS A GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST,
BUREAUCRATS KNOW HOW TO SPEND
YOUR MONEY BETTER THAN YOU DO.
THAT’S THE ESSENCE.
IT’S KIND OF A TWO-FOLD THING,
PUNISH THE RICH AND WE TAKE OVER
PERSONAL DECISION MAKEING.
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW MOST VOTERS
OPPOSE TAX INCREASES OF ANY KIND
COMING IN THE MIDDLE OF A
PANDEMIC.
SO IT’S KIND OF PERPLEXING TO
SAY THE ECONOMY NEEDS STIMULUS,
WE HAVE TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO
WORK AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME
PROPOSE LARGE TAX INCREASES.
I THINK THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE
BEFORE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO
STIMULATE AN ECONOMY AND MOVE IT
FORWARD.
MMT OR NOT, MMT IS AN UNPROVEN
THEORY HERE AND THE DEMOCRATS
ARE PUTTING A LOT AT RISK.
I KNOW SOME OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS
ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION, IS
THIS TOO FAR?
I KNOW CERTAINLY A LOT OF THE
PROBLEM SOLVERS DEMOCRATS WANT
REGULAR ORDER BACK SO THERE ARE
REAL COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND ALSO
WANT STATE AND LOCAL TAXES
RESTORED IN TERMS OF A DEDUCTION
IN THEIR STATE.
SO I THINK THERE’S CERTAINLY
GOING TO BE SOME ISSUES HERE.
BUT THE BIG QUESTION IS, WILL
THIS BIG GET AN EXPLORATION.
THIS IS ONLY PART ONE.
THERE’S ANOTHER PART COMING.
THIS COULD BE OVER $4 TRILLION.
MMT OR NOT, THAT IS THE MOST
ENORMOUS GOVERNMENT SPENDING
CERTAINLY SINCE FDR AND THE
DEPRESSION AND WE’RE NOT IN THAT
KIND OF ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT
RIGHT NOW.
MARIA: EXACTLY.
AND WE ARE EXPECTING PART TWO IN
THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.
WE’LL PROBABLY GET THAT BY THE
END OF APRIL AND THAT WILL
INCLUDE MUCH HIGHER TAXES, NOT
JUST ON THE CORPORATE SECTOR BUT
INDIVIDUALS.
I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS, ASK
ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE SEEING IN YOUR
POLLING, MARK, ABOUT HOW
AMERICANS FEEL ABOUT THE CRISIS
AT THE BORDER.
YOUR RESULTS SHOW 79% OF VOTERS
SAY THAT THE CRISIS NEEDS TO BE
ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY.
TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE FOUND IN
SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE ABOUT THE
BORDER PART OF THIS RADICAL
AGENDA.
>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE
ADMINISTRATION CAN’T DENY THAT
THERE’S A CRISIS THERE.
THERE’S NO HE QUESTION THAT 79%
AS YOU SAID THINK THERE’S A
CRISIS THAT NEEDS IMMEDIATE
ATTENTION.
I’M SURPRISED EITHER THE
PRESIDENT OR THE VICE PRESIDENT
WENT DOWN TO THE BORDER WHICH IS
A TYPICAL RESPONSE WHEN
SOMETHING’S A CRISIS AND THEN
SAY HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FIX IT.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
AT THIS AND THEY’RE SAYING,
WELL, IF IF THERE WAS A WALL BUI
IT SHOULD STAY THERE, THINGS
SHOULD BE PATCHED, CATCH AND
RELEASE DOESN’T MAKE SENSE, THAT
RETURNING PEOPLE TO THEIR
COUNTRY TO HE PREVENT THIS KIND
OF SURGE IN IMMIGRATION, I THINK
THIS IS A BIG ISSUE FOR
DEMOCRATS.
IT’S RISING FAST.
PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS
IMMIGRATION ISSUE WAS IN TERMS
OF A BORDER, WAS IN THE REAR
VIEW MIRROR.
RIGHT NOW IT’S COMING -- RISING
REALLY QUITE RAPIDLY IN THE POLL
AS A BIG ISSUE AND THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC REALLY SAYS THAT THEY
WANT SOME STRONG BORDER
PROTECTION, AT THE SAME TIME
THEY’RE WILLING TO BE QUITE
COMPASSIONATE TO THOSE WHO ARE
HERE AND PARTICULARLY DACA
RECIPIENTS, ONLY IN EXCHANGE FOR
STRONG BORDERS AT THE SAME TIME.
MARIA: THESE ARE ALL PRACTICAL
IDEAS, MARK.
I MEAN, OF COURSE THE WALL WAS
PAID FOR BUT IN THE ERA OF
TRUMP, EVERYTHING IS UPSIDE
DOWN.
IT WAS TRUMP’S POLICY SO LET’S
GET OUT OF IT.
DID THEY MAKE THESE DECISIONS
WITHOUT ACTUALLY STUDYING THE
ISSUES, JUST BECAUSE THEY WANTED
TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DIDN’T
HAVE TRUMP’S LEGACY?
>> WELL, THEY CLEARLY ACTED
HASTILY AND THEY HAVE A CRISIS
THEY DIDN’T ANTICIPATE IN TERMS
OF THE BORDER.
THE QUESTION IS, ARE THEY GOING
TO BE ABLE TO STOP OR REVERSE
THE CRISIS OR IS THIS GOING TO
WEIGH HEAVILY ON THEIR POLITICS
BECAUSE IT IS COMING UP AS SUCH
A BIG ISSUE.
CERTAINLY IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A
POLICY OF BEING, QUOTE, MORE
HUMANE, HAVING THOUSANDS AND
THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN IN REALLY
SMALL AREAS IS NOT GOING TO BE
SEEN BY THE PUBLIC AS MORE
HUMANE.
THEY’RE GOING TO NEED TO DO
SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
MARIA: YEAH.
ALL RIGHT, MARK.
GREAT TO GET YOUR TAKE AS
ALWAYS.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.