-Our first guest tonight is a best-selling author
and the Emmy-winning host of "The Rachel Maddow Show,"
which airs weeknights at 9:00 on MSNBC.
Please welcome back to the show our friend Rachel Maddow.
How are you, Rachel?
-I am, you know, inaugural-ish.
-Does it feel real to you? Does it feel real that this
is the last full day of the Trump presidency?
-I mean, what are the odds that this time tomorrow Trump's gone?
It just seems absolutely impossible.
-I know. -I don't know.
I mean, I know he's going to -- In my brain, I know it's true,
but in my guts, I feel like
this is going to be a persistent infection.
-I certainly agree with you on that.
But there is of course -- Because it's the last day,
we keep hearing the talk of maybe 50 to 100 pardons.
We're talking at around 4:00 in the afternoon.
They haven't happened yet.
Don't you think it will be a fitting farewell present
from the President to you if he does it, like,
five minutes before your show starts tonight?
-[ Laughs ] I am not egotistical enough
to think that I have a place in his mind.
But he does do a lot of stuff at, like, 8:55.
-Yeah. -And -- Eastern time.
Tight before the show starts.
And, you know, everybody that I know in the news business --
everybody, people on conservative networks
and liberal networks, in between,
stray journalists, reporters --
everybody who has anything to do with covering politics
has aged over these four years
the way presidents age over four years.
You know how Obama went in like a young man
and came out like Methuselah?
I mean, they all do.
But it happened to the reporters this time.
Everybody in the news business, we all have one major
new physical thing wrong with us, at least.
-Yeah. And the President looks exactly the same.
-[ Laughs ] Yes, he absolutely does.
-To be fair, for the last 30 years, he's looked the same.
So...
You -- I know you are someone
would likes the ceremony of this office,
things like the State of the Union.
Yet we have an inauguration that, for a lot of reasons,
both be it safety, COVID protocols,
a lot of it's going to be virtual tomorrow.
Do you think it will have the same effect
that a powerful inauguration can have?
-It's an interesting question.
I've been thinking a lot about it
because I'm going to be on air all day covering it,
and I'm assuming that it's going to be fine.
But it is going to be different.
And part of what is meaningful about ceremonies like this
and things like State of the Union
and things like Election Night is that there is a sort of
sameness or repetition or tradition for it.
And even without all the craziness
of, like, Trump leaving early
and it has to be the usher who lets the Bidens in
because the former First Lady and former President
will have gone by then.
Even with all of the Trump craziness,
just the COVID factor and the way they have to do it
with so few people
is going to make it seem not like other inaugurals.
I think it will still feel, like, special
and important and have a lot of gravitas.
But the combination of the Trump weirdness
and 20,000-plus troops having to be there
because the transition of power was not peaceful this time
and the COVID stuff,
it is just going to be once-in-a-lifetime.
I feel both good and bad about that, I guess.
-There is obviously a lot that the Biden/Harris administration
is going to have to address right away,
but I'm wondering what your thoughts are as far as
how the events of January 6th are going to affect
the way President Biden governs, especially early on.
-[ Breathes deeply ] I mean, we'll see.
It's been a rollicking thing to see since January 6th
that every day, there are new and very serious charges
being brought against people who were part of the attack
on the Capitol, including, you know,
conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States,
which is the first time they're starting to bring charges
like that in terms of there being an organized
command and control effort to attack the government,
rather than just people being charged with trespassing
or stolen property and stuff like that.
So the charges have been really serious.
But, you know, we'll see what
the Biden Justice Department does, for example,
and what the Biden-led FBI does on those things.
And it's just going to be -- I mean, it's a shocking thing
to have to deal with, but, also, like,
how does it affect everything else he wants to do?
I keep thinking...
it's just kind of like if you just got a new job,
you were just named bank manager,
you're gonna be running this branch of this bank
and you're super-excited,
and you've been building up to this for a long time,
and you're really qualified, and everybody's psyched
for you to take on this new job, and you show up
for your first day as the new manager of the bank
while the bank is being robbed.
And it's like, "Well, the first thing I have to do
as the new bank manager is tie up the perpetrators
and call the police
and make sure everybody gives their witness statements."
I mean, Biden is taking over in the middle of this, like,
incredible crime spree
that he has to deal with on top of everything else.
-And then Biden has to -- The kind of guy he is,
is I feel like he then says, like, "And, look, I'm not just
the president for the bank and the people at the bank.
I'm also the president for the robbers.
I'm everybody's president."
-[ Laughs ] That's right.
"We need to understand why they needed all of our money."
Yeah. The empathy may be out of control.
-I actually want to ask about that empathy in a second.
We'll be right back with more from Rachel Maddow.