>> Jeyan: LAYOFFS AND PROGRAM CLOSURES AT LAURENTIAN UNIVERSITY ANNOUNCED LAST WEEK
HIT CLOSEST TO HOME IN SUDBURY.
NICK DUNNE COVERS THE NORTHEAST FROM THERE, FOR OUR ONTARIO HUBS, AND HE JOINS US NOW.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
>> Nick: THANKS FOR HAVING ME, JEYAN.
>> Jeyan: NICK, YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THE TROUBLES OF LAURENTIAN FOR A WHILE.
OVERALL, WHAT'S YOUR IMPRESSION OF HOW SUDBURY IS HANDLING THE NEWS NOW THAT TANGIBLE CUTS HAVE
BEEN MADE.
>> YEAH, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, JEYAN.
THE CUTS HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT, ESPECIALLY ON THE LAURENTIAN COMMUNITY.
I DON'T THINK I'VE SPOKEN TO A FACULTY MEMBER OR A STUDENT WHO HASN'T BEEN IN TEARS THROUGH
THIS PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, THE UNCERTAINTY IN FEBRUARY, LEADING UP TO NOW, WHICH IS EXAM TIME, TO FIGURE
OUT WHETHER OR NOT THEIR PROGRAM HAD BEEN CUT.
AS FAR AS THE LARGER COMMUNITY, IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT.
LAURENTIAN PLAYS A PRETTY LARGE ECONOMIC ROLE IN THE COMMUNITY.
AND IN TERMS OF SUDBURY'S GREATER KIND OF STORY, I KNOW ANY TIME I GO OUT AND TALK TO
PEOPLE ABOUT SUDBURY, THEY TALK ABOUT THE RE-GREENING EFFORTS HERE THAT WERE DONE IN THE
'70s AND HOW KEY LAURENTIAN WAS TO THAT PROCESS, YOU KNOW.
YOU CAN LOOK AT PICTURES OF SUDBURY 20, 40 YEARS AGO, AND IT'S JUST RUBBLE AND DUST AND
THERE'S A LOT OF ACID RAIN HERE.
IT WAS LAURENTIAN'S ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE PROGRAM PARTNERED WITH LOCAL LEADERSHIP
THAT REALLY TURNED THINGS AROUND, YOU KNOW.
AND EVEN THE SNOW LAB.
A NEUTRINO LAB.
LAURENTIAN'S PHYSICS PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN CUT AND THEY'RE NO LONGER PART OF THE RESEARCH THAT
GOES ON THERE.
IT'S A WORLD RENOWNED LAB THAT STEPHEN HAWKING HAS VISITED.
IT'S BEEN A BIG LOSS FOR THE COMMUNITY SO FAR.
>> Jeyan: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC FALLOUT.
WHAT DOES THIS EXACTLY MEAN IN TERMS OF DOLLARS AND CENTS TO THE CITY?
>> YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN LOCAL ECONOMISTS WHO HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
THE SUDBURY STAR PUT OUT AN ARTICLE ESTIMATING IT AT AROUND $100 MILLION.
TO BREAK THAT DOWN, I SPOKE WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE NORTHERN POLICY INSTITUTE, CHARLES
SIRTWELL.
WITH 110 FACULTY GONE WITH A SALARY OF ABOUT $150,000 A YEAR, YOU'RE LOOKING AT $50 MILLION OF
SALARY CUT RIGHT THERE OFF THE BAT.
YOU KNOW, THE 5% PAY CUT TO THE REMAINING FACULTY IS ANOTHER AT LEAST $2 MILLION.
YOU THINK ABOUT STUDENTS WHO MIGHT NOT BE GOING TO LAURENTIAN ANYMORE, FEWER STUDENTS DUE TO
FEWER PROGRAMS.
SO THAT'S A LOT OF SPENDING POWER IN BARS, RESTAURANTS, NIGHT CLUBS, CULTURAL CENTRES.
THEN THE OTHER THING YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ARE SPOUSES OF FACULTY.
SO THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING WITH JOBS TO THE LOCAL ECONOMY.
IF THOSE PROFESSORS, FACULTY, STAFF HAVE TO LEAVE TO FIND ANOTHER JOB ELSEWHERE, THAT'S
MORE MONEY.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT AT LEAST $20 MILLION RIGHT THERE.
THEN THERE ARE THE BUSINESSES THAT PROVIDE SERVICES TO SUDBURY, EVERYTHING FROM FOOD
SERVICES, OFFICE SUPPLIES, YOU KNOW, YOUR ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING
THERE.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CUTS ARE THERE YET, BUT THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT.
AND THEN YOU THINK ABOUT, WITH ALL THAT SALARY GONE, THAT TRICKLES DOWN INTO BUSINESSES,
GROCERY STORES, RESTAURANTS, ET CETERA, WHO THEN HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN CUTS POTENTIALLY TO
STAFF.
AND YOU REALLY SEE HOW THAT $20 MILLION CASCADES SIGNIFICANTLY.
AND, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT $100 MILLION TO $100 MILLION.
IT'S BIGGER THAN THE LAYOFFS AT LEAST.
>> Jeyan: THE UNIVERSITY OBVIOUSLY SERVES A LARGE POPULATION, NOT JUST THE CITY OF
GREATER SUDBURY, BUT THE LARGER REGION.
DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF THE POTENTIAL REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE REGION AT LARGE?
>> YEAH.
SO, I MEAN, IT'S TOUGH TO SAY.
I MEAN, REALLY, THE LARGER REGION DOES RELY ON SUDBURY AS AN ECONOMIC ENGINE THAT KIND OF
FEEDS THESE OTHER COMMUNITIES.
PEOPLE RELY ON, YOU KNOW, SHOPPING HERE.
IT'S HARD TO SAY THE EXACT IMPACTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS PLACE IS REALLY THE CENTRE FOR
THE NORTHEAST AND ARGUABLY NORTHERN ONTARIO.
SO IT CERTAINLY WILL HAVE AN IMPACT.
AND THE SCHOOL REALLY HAD A LARGE DOMESTIC BASE IN NORTHERN ONTARIO.
SO THOSE ARE A LOT OF STUDENTS WHO MIGHT HAVE TO GO SIGNIFICANTLY FURTHER AWAY FOR
THEIR EDUCATION, AND RETAINING YOUTH IS A SIGNIFICANT PRIORITY FOR ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO, JUST KEEPING THINGS ECONOMICALLY GOING AND KEEPING THE POPULATION YOUNG AND
WORKING.
>> Jeyan: I WANT TO PULL A CLIP FROM THIS PAST MONDAY.
SEBASTIEN LALONDE, A CHAIRPERSON OF THE CANADIAN FEDERATION OF STUDENTS IN ONTARIO, HAD THIS TO
SAY ON OUR SHOW THIS WEEK.
>> LAURENTIAN UNIVERSITY WAS ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE YOU COULD GET A FULLY FRANCOPHONE
POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION, AND YET AS WE'VE SEEN, THAT AND INDIGENOUS STUDIES AND
INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE PROGRAMS ARE THE VERY FIRST THINGS TO BE CUT WHEN WE'RE SEEING FINANCIAL
CUTBACKS.
AND THAT IS IS A DIRECT ATTACK ON THE FRANCOPHONE COMMUNITY, ON THE INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, AND
ESPECIALLY FOR THE TRICULTURAL, NOT ONLY UNIVERSITY, BUT THE TRICULTURAL COMMUNITY IN
SUDBURY.
>> Jeyan: THAT WAS ON MONDAY WITH NAM KIWANUKA.
SEBASTIEN LALONDE MENTIONED THE TRICULTURAL MANDATE THERE.
DO YOU THINK LAURENTIAN HAS PUT THAT AT RISK?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN HALF OF THE PROGRAMS IN FRENCH WERE CUT, BUT THERE ARE 24
PROGRAMS THAT REMAIN TO BE TAUGHT IN FRENCH.
AS FAR AS THE INDIGENOUS STUDIES PROGRAM, THEY'RE GOING TO BE REPLACING IT, IT SEEMS, WITH
WHAT THEY CALL A PROGRAM ROOTED IN INDIGENOUS PERSPECTIVES OR, AT THE VERY LEAST, USING COURSES
FROM THEIR FACULTY OF ARTS TO KIND OF SUPPLEMENT THAT WITH SOME LEVEL OF, YOU KNOW,
INDIGENOUS EDUCATION.
HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, I THINK FACULTY AND STUDENTS IN BOTH OF THOSE -- IN ALL THOSE PROGRAMS
WILL TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE LEVELS OF CUTS REALLY DO NOT LIVE UP TO THAT TRICULTURAL
AND BILINGUAL MANDATE.
SO, I MEAN, THEY'RE THERE, BUT AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE STRENGTH OF THOSE PROGRAMS, IT'S
REALLY HARD TO SAY.
AT THE VERY LEAST THEY'VE BEEN HAMPERED BY THAT MANDATE.
>> Jeyan: YOU SPOKE TO ONE PROFESSOR WHO IS FEELING CONFUSED BY THE STATE OF THESE
PROGRAMS.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE CONFUSION THERE?
>> YEAH.
SO THE INDIGENOUS STUDIES PROGRAM IS IN A VERY STRANGE PREDICAMENT.
IT IS A PROGRAM THAT BELONGS TO THE UNIVERSITY OF SUDBURY, ONE OF LAURENTIAN'S FEDERATED
INSTITUTIONS.
HOWEVER, THOSE STUDENTS GET A LAURENTIAN DEGREE AS PART OF THE FEDERATED AGREEMENT.
SO IN THIS WHOLE RESTRUCTURING PROCESS, LAURENTIAN IS TERMINATING ITS AGREEMENTS WITH
ALL THE FEDERATED UNIVERSITIES, OR AT LEAST IT'S TRYING TO, AND THIS LEAVES THE INDIGENOUS
STUDIES PROGRAM IN LIMBO, EFFECTIVELY.
SO RIGHT NOW ON AN INTERIM BASIS, THE LAURENTIAN UNIVERSITY WILL BE OFFERING SIX COURSES
FROM THE INDIGENOUS STUDIES PROGRAM TAUGHT BY SESSIONAL INSTRUCTORS.
NOTE THAT THAT'S NOT FACULTY.
BUT THEN THEY WILL BE OFFERING A PROGRAM IN INDIGENOUS RELATIONS -- OR PERSPECTIVES,
RATHER.
SO THIS LEAVES THE UNIVERSITY OF SUDBURY'S INDIGENOUS STUDIES PROGRAM REALLY IN A STATE OF
UNCERTAINTY.
I SPOKE WITH A PROFESSOR WHO SAID IN A UNION MEETING TO EXPECT A NOTICE OF TERMINATION
BY MAY 1ST.
BUT THERE HAVE BEEN REALLY NO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS ON THIS YET, AND I THINK WHILE FACULTY
ARE EXPECTING THE WORST HERE, THE DUST HAS YET TO SETTLE ON THE FUTURE OF THIS PROGRAM AND
WHAT THE UNIVERSITY OF SUDBURY PLANS FOR IT.
>> Jeyan: I WANT TO PICK UP ACTUALLY ON STUDENTS.
YOU HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO SOME STUDENTS, THERE WERE PROTESTS ABOUT CUTS TO PROGRAMS,
PARTICULARLY THE MIDWIFERY PROGRAM.
>> THEY ARE DEVASTATED.
JUST REALLY, REALLY REELING FROM THIS NOW.
AGAIN, THE FUTURE OF THESE PROGRAMS ARE SO HARD TO SAY.
WELL, SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN CUT, EVIDENTLY.
BUT STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, DON'T QUITE KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO.
I MEAN, THE UNIVERSITY IS GOING TO BE OFFERING THEM ELECTIVES, ONLINE COURSES, PERHAPS LETTERS
OF PERMISSION TO TAKE COURSES AT OTHER INSTITUTIONS TO COMPLETE THEIR DEGREE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE EARLY ON IN YOUR DEGREE, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE
TO COBBLE TOGETHER A DEGREE WITH THE CREDITS THAT YOU HAVE.
SO TRANSFERALS ARE A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY FOR THE INSTITUTION.
PERHAPS ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YOUR COURSES WILL COUNT.
THIS IS HOURS OF WORK AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THAT COULD BE LOST EFFECTIVELY TO THESE
STUDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE CUTS DIRECTLY.
AND ON TOP OF THIS, AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON WHILE STUDENTS ARE DOING THEIR EXAMS RIGHT NOW.
SO THEY'RE FRETTING ABOUT EXAMS.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE IN THE FALL.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR A LOT OF STUDENTS AND, AGAIN, LOTS OF TEARS, LOTS OF DISMAY AND, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT LEAVING LAURENTIAN. I'VE HEARD THAT A NUMBER OF TIMES.
>> Jeyan: NICK, I HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT. I DO WANT TO ASK YOU. YOU LIVE IN SUDBURY, YOU
REPORT ON NORTHEASTERN ONTARIO.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PERSONAL FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED THERE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS?
>> THIS IS A MAJOR, MAJOR DEVASTATION BUT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS HAS
HAPPENED TO SUDBURY.
YOU JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT INCO AND FALCONBRIDGE IN THE '80s, SIGNIFICANT CUTS THERE THAT
REALLY DEVASTATED THE COMMUNITY BUT ON THE FLIPSIDE OF THAT, SUDBURY'S HAD TWO OF
THE LONGEST LABOUR STRIKES IN CANADIAN HISTORY. FIRST WITH INCO, AND THEN IN 2010 WITH
VALE. SO THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT DOESN'T GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT.
RIGHT NOW, THINGS ARE LOOKING REALLY TOUGH.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CCAA AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO PICK UP THE
PIECES OF THIS AFTERWARDS BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE FIGHTING.
THERE'S HOPE YET.
>> Jeyan: A STORY THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW, NICK.
I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE SHOW AND WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT TIME.