♪ ♪
♪ >>> ALL RIGHT.
JOINING US NOW FORM ARE BRITTER
PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR JOINS
US.
US. >> GOOD TO HAVE YOU.
ANYTHING GOING ON IN BRITAIN YOU
CAN FILL US IN ON?
>> EVERYWHERE YOU GO IN THE
WORLD TODAY, THIS IS A
CONVERSATION, A COMPETITION AS
TO WHOSE POLITICS IS CRAZIER.
I CAN ASSURE YOU WE’RE WINNING
HANDS DOWN.
HANDS DOWN. >> SO WHAT WE DON’T UNDERSTAND
IS HOW, FIRST OF ALL, IT
CONTINUES ON AND DRAGS ON
WITHOUT RESOLUTION BUT,
SECONDLY, HOW DOES THERESA MAY
SURVIVE SO MANY VOTES THAT WOULD
HAVE DESTROYED ANY OTHER PRIME
MINISTER BEFORE?
MINISTER BEFORE? >> IT’S A GREAT QUESTION.
BASICALLY BECAUSE THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS
FUNDAMENTALLY DIVIDED, AS INDEED
ALL OF BRITISH POLITICS IS.
EVEN THOUGH THERE MAY BE MOVES
TO REMOVE HER AS PRIME MINISTER,
THERE ISN’T AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT
COMES NEXT AND WHAT IS TO BE
DONE NEXT AND THAT HELPS KEEP
HER THERE.
HER THERE. THE PROBLEM WITH BREXIT IS VERY
SIMPLE.
SIMPLE. CAN YOU GET OUT OF THE POLITICAL
STRUCTURES BUT DO YOU LEAVE THE
ECONOMIC STRUCTURES OF THE
EUROPEAN UNION, THE SINGLE
MARKET AND CUSTOMS UNION, WHICH
ARE ECONOMIC STRUCTURES THAT
BRITAIN HAS BEEN PARTICIPATING
IN FOR FOUR AND A HALF DECADES.
YOU HAVE ALL SORTS OF
RELATIONSHIP OF COMMERCE AND
BUSINESS THAT HAVE GROWN UP ON
THE BASIS WE’RE IN THAT MARKET.
THE QUESTION IS DO YOU GET OUT
OF THOSE ECONOMIC STRUCTURES, IN
WHICH CASE YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE
A PAINFUL PROCESS OF ADJUSTMENT
OR DO YOU STAY IN THEM, HAVING
LET THE POLITICAL STRUCTURES, IN
WAY CASE YOU’RE PLAYING BY
ENGLAND’S RULES.
ENGLAND’S RULES. THOSE CHOICES WILL BE RUN IN
PARLIAMENT WHERE A PROPER
DISCIPLINE WITH THE POSSIBILITY
OF GOING BACK TO THE PEOPLE.
>> THE FIRST TIME I REALIZED
THIS WAS A VERY COMPLICATED
ISSUE WAS WHEN MIKA AND I WERE
TALKING ABOUT SOME OF OTHER
FRIENDS WHO MOVED OVER FROM
MANCHESTER.
MANCHESTER. EVERY TIME I BROUGHT UP MARGARET
THATCHER’S NAME YOU WOULD HAVE
THOUGHT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE
DEVIL HERSELF.
DEVIL HERSELF. I SAID YOU’RE OBVIOUSLY AGAINST
BREXIT, AREN’T YOU?
SHE WASN’T ON A 20-MINUTE TEAR.
NO.
NO. YES, WE’RE FOR BREXIT AND WENT
THROUGH A LOT OF TOPICS AND SAID
WE DON’T WANT TO BE TIED, WE
WANT TO CONTROL OUR OWN DESTINY
AND NOT HAVE THE EU TELL US HOW
TO CONTROL OUR BORDERS.
THERE IS NO WAY TO DIVIDE THE
IMMIGRATION QUESTION FROM THE
ECONOMIC QUESTION.
ECONOMIC QUESTION. >> IT LIKE POLITICS EVERYWHERE
IN THE WEST, IT’S BEING DRIVEN
BY CULTURAL QUESTIONS AND
ECONOMIC QUESTIONS, IT’S
DIFFERENT BY PEOPLE WHO FEEL
THEY’RE CASUALTIES OF THE
GOVERNMENT, NOT BENEFITING FROM
IT.
IT. THIS IS A VERY SHARP
GENERATIONAL DIVIDE.
GENERATIONAL DIVIDE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVER 65s,
TWO-THIRDS VOTED FOR BREXIT.
YOU LOOK AT THE UNDER 35s,
TWO-THIRDS OR EVEN MORE VOTED IN
FAVOR OF STAYING IN EUROPE.
>> A PARALLEL WITH TRUMP VOTERS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. CAN YOU SEE IT ALL OVER THE
WESTERN WORLD.
WESTERN WORLD. YOU HAVE A POPULISM OF THE
RIGHT, A POPULISM OF THE LEFT AS
WELL AND THEY’RE IN STRONG
COMPETITION WITH EACH OTHER.
I THINK POPULISM REALLY BORN OF
PESSIMISM.
PESSIMISM. PEOPLE LOOK AT THE FUTURE,
THEY’RE NOT SURE THE NEXT
GENERATION WILL DO AS WELL AS
THIS GENERATION AND THIS IS
WHAT’S BREAKING UP POLITICS
EVERYWHERE.
EVERYWHERE. >> ONE FINAL QUESTION AND THEN
I’LL GET OFF THE PITCH.
MY CONCERN FROM AFAR WITH EUROPE
FOR SEVERAL YEARS AS BEEN THE
FACT THAT EUROPE’S NEVER CHARTED
A MIDDLE COURSE ON IMMIGRATION.
WE ACTUALLY ARE CHARTING A
MIDDLE COURSE ON IMMIGRATION,
REGARDLESS OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP
SAID, BARACK OBAMA ACTUALLY WAS
TOUGH ON THE BORE ERDER, MAYBE S
THE BORDER WAS CONTROLLED AND
BORDERS ACTUALLY MEANT
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. THAT DOESN’T SEEM TO BE THE CASE
IN EUROPE AND BECAUSE THERE’S
NEVER A CENTER GROUND, BECAUSE A
POLITICIAN IN GERMANY OR FRANCE
CAN’T TACKKE A CENTER GROUND ON
IMMIGRATION AND TALKS ABOUT
BORDERS WITHOUT BEING CALLED A
NEO NAZI, THEN YOU JUST CEDE THE
ENTIRE PITCH, WE’LL SEE, TO THE
FAR RIGHT.
FAR RIGHT. >> YUP.
>> YUP. >> DO YOU SEE THAT AS A PROBLEM?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK THAT IS THE CHALLENGE.
IT’S A REALLY GOOD POINT BUT
WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY IS THAT
I THINK THERE IS A SENSE THAT
YOU’VE GOT TO PUT CONTROL AND
ORDER AROUND THE IMMIGRATION
QUESTION BECAUSE IF YOU DON’T
HAVE RULES YOU GET PREJUDICES SO
ACTUALLY TODAY EUROPE IS
STRENGTHENING ITS EXTERNAL
BORDERS AND EVEN ON THE FREEDOM
OF MOVEMENT QUESTION.
WITHIN EUROPEAN THERE IS A LOT
OF DESIRE FOR CHANGE TO MAKE
SURE, FOR EXAMPLE, COMPANIES
AREN’T IMPORTING CHEAPER LABOR
TO UNDERCUT LOCAL WAGES AND SO
ON.
ON. SO I THINK THERE IS A WAY
THROUGH.
THROUGH. PEOPLE ARE ARGUING IN THE URCHLT
KNCHT TODAY, IF WE GET TO
ANOTHER RECHBD, EUROPE SHOULD
ALSO THINK AGAIN, PARTICULARLY
AROUND THE QUESTIONS OF
IMMIGRATION.
IMMIGRATION. THE MOST PEOPLE IN EUROPE, THE
UNDERLYING ISSUES THAT GAVE RISE
TO BREXIT ARE NATIONWIDE BUT
EUROPE HAD THE REFERENDUM.
EUROPE SHOULD ALSO UNDERSTAND
THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE PART OF
THE COOPERATIVE SYSTEM OF EUROPE
BUT THEY WANT TO DO IT AS NATION
STATES.
STATES. THIS IS THE TENSION THAT’S
ALWAYS BEEN THERE AT THE HEART
OF THE EUROPEAN PROJECT.
PEOPLE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT EUROPE
BREAKING UP.
BREAKING UP. IT HASN’T AND IT WON’T.
>> AS YOU KNOW WELL, MR. PRIEPT
HAS GIVEN THERESA MAY AND THE --
FOR AMERICAN VIEWERS WHO HAVEN’T
FOLLOWED EVERY PARLIAMENT AND
THERE WAS A REFERENDUM AND
PEOPLE VOTED TO LEAVE EUROPE.
WHY IS THERESA M THE SIMPLE
ANSWER IS WHEN UP LOOK AT THE
DETAIL OF BREXIT, THERE ARE
DIFFERENT
DIFFERENT DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. THE QUESTION IS WHAT FORM OF
BREXIT?
BREXIT? AND WITH THE DECISION OF THIS
MAGNITUDE AND WITH THREE YEARS
OF THIS MESS, IS IT SENSIBLE TO
ASK FOR THE FINAL SAY ON
WHATEVER DEAL PARLIAMENT FINALLY
GRIEF P AGREES TO GO BACKS TO
BUT I THINK WE’VE GOT A TIME NOW
TO RUN A PROCESS OND GET OUT OF
THIS.
THIS. WHATEVER HAPPENS, BRITAIN WILL
RE
RE REWHAT’S YOUR BEST GUEST OF WHAT
HAPPENS ON OCTOBER 31st OR
BEFORE THAT?
BEFORE THAT? >> MY BEST GUEST IS WHEN
PARLIAMENT FINALLY TAKES A
DECISION, IT’S GOING TO.
>> WE’RE EXPERIENCING GLOBALLY A
RISE OR RERISE OF TRABLIZATIONOU
THE FEARS OF PEOPLE FEELING
CULTURALLY DISLOCATED OR IS THIS
JUST A PROCESS OF GETTING OLDER?
THIS IS A UNIVERSAL SITUATION,
WE HAVE THIS IN THE UNITED
STATES, BUT I’M WONDERING HOW
YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT THE END
IS NOT --
IS NOT -- >> THIS IS THE QUESTION IN
WESTERN POLITICS EVERYWHERE.
YOU’VE GOT TO DEAL WITH BOTH
ASPECT.
ASPECT. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
IMMIGRATION.
IMMIGRATION. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PROPER RULES
AND CONTROLS AROUND IT.
THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH
SAYING I BELIEVE IMMIGRATION HAS
BEEN A GREAT THIS EVENING FOR MY
COUNTRY AND FOR THIS KR PEOPLE
WANT TO KNOW THERE’S DISCIPLINE
AND ORDER IN THE SYSTEM.
YOU’VE GOT TO PLAY DEFENSE
AROUND CULTURE AND IMT GRAGS.
THE SECOND THING IS YOU’VE GOT
TO UNDERSTAND AND DEAL
SPECIFICALLY WITH THE
COMMUNITIES AND THE PEOPLE LEFT
BEHIND.
BEHIND. THE PROBLEM WITH THE POPLESS IS
THAT WHAT THEY DO IS PUT FORWARD
THESE KIND OF SQULOUT SUED
SOLUTIONS BUT AND ARE MR ABOUT I
THINK THE SINGLE BIGGEST
CHALLENGE WE’RE ALL GOING TO
FACE IS THE TECHNICAL LODGE KAK
AND THE POLITICAL DEBATE DOESN’T
MUCH FOCUS ON HOW WE PREPARE FOR
THAT AND HOW DO WE PREPARE FOR
THAT IS THIS.
>> PREPARE YOUR REJ STRIP,
REPAIR THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND
WORK OUT HOW YOU EXPLAIN TO
PEOPLE THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS
AND HOW YOU DEAL WITH -- THE
PROGRESSIVES WILL SAY THERE’S
GOT TO BE A ROLE FOR GOVERNMENT
AND THE STATE FOR HELPING PEOPLE
THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
BUT MIND YOU, THE PROGRESSIVES
WILL ONLY WIN THIS ARGUMENT IF
THEY’VE GOT A MODERN VIEW BHAF
GOVERNMENT HAS TO DO AND THEY’RE
NOT FIGHTING ON AN OLD STYLE
LEFTISM.
LEFTISM. >> DAVID IGNATIUS HAS A
QUESTION.
QUESTION. >> Reporter: MR. PRIME MINISTER,
THERESA MAY, THE TORE BUT WHAT
ABOUT THE LEADER, JERRICKY
CORBIN?
CORBIN? IS IT TIME FOR THE LABOR PARTY
TO FIND NEW LEADERSHIP THAT
COULD MAKE LABOR AGAIN A
GOVERNING PARTY THAT COULD FIND
SOME WAY OUT OF THIS MESS?
>> WELL, IT NOT A HUGE SECRET
THAT MYSELF AND JEREMY CORBIN
AREN’T IN AGREEMENT TO WHAT
SHOULD HAPPEN TO THE LABOR
PARTY.
PARTY. THE ANSWER IS, YES, I THINK IT
WOULD BE JUST THE ABOUT AND IF
IT DOES THAT, BY THE WAY, IT CAN
SUCCEED BUT IT’S GOT TO DO THAT
WITH SPEED BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE
OTHER THING THAT’S HAPPENING
WITH PARTIES ON THE LEFT RIGHT
AROUND EUROPE AT THE MOMENT IS
THEY TEND TO MOVE FURTHER TO THE
LEFT IN RESPONSE TO THE MOVE TO
THE RIGHT OF THE TRADITIONAL
RIGHT-WING PARTIES AND THIS IS
LEAVING A BIG SPACE IN THE
CENTER THAT’S UNINHABITED.
LOOK, MY BASIC EXPERIENCE IN
POLITICS IS POPULISM WITH THE
LEFT FIGHTS THE POPULISM WITH
THE RIGHT AND THE RIGHT WINS.
>> WHEN THINGS ARE GOING BADLY
HERE, WHEN WE HAVE GRIDLOCK AND
PEOPLE WILL START RIGHTING
OP-EDS AND EDITORIALS ABOUT HOW
WE NEED TO BE A PARLIAMENTARY
SYSTEM, LOOK AT HOW SMOOTHLY
THINGS GO IN BRITAIN, THEY USED
TO SAY, RIGHT?
SO YOU COULD CHART A COURSE.
BUT THIS ENTIRE EPISODE OF
BREXIT HAS EXPOSED A WEAKNESS IN
THAT SYSTEM AS WELL.
WHERE WHAT HAPPENED IN GREAT
BRITT ’WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.
WE HAVE SOAK SO MANY CHECKS AND
BALANCES BE THE REGULATORS WOULD
GET IT, THE WE JUST DON’T -- OUR
COUNTRY DOES NOT TURN ON A DIME
LIKE THAT BASED ON HOW PEOPLE
VOTE ON ONE DAY.
ARE THERE ANY SECOND THOUGHTS
ABOUT HOW TO CHUCK THAT MOVING
FORWARD?
FORWARD? >> I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A
UNIQUE SO I’M NOT SURE REALLY
OFFERS THIS DEEP-SEEDED
CONSTITUTIONAL LESSONS.
CONSTITUTIONAL LESSONS. THERE IS CHAOS BECAUSE THIS IS A
MASSIVELY COMPLICATED DECISION
OF ENORMOUS IMPORTANCE.
AND IN A STRANGE WAY, YOU’VE
NEEDED THE CHAOS TO COME OUT
WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT
THINGS ON A PROPER PATH.
BUT IN THE END FOR ALL POLITICAL
PARTIES, THE CHALLENGE TODAY IS
CAN YOU REACH OUT TO THE OTHER
SIDE’S VOTERS AND PERSUADE THEM.
AND THE CHOICE ALL THE TIME ARE
YOU A PARTY OF PROTEST OR A
PARTY OF GOVERNMENT?
AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT -- IT’S
A DIFFERENT PSYCHOLOGY.
I ALWAYS USED TO SAY TO PEOPLE
WHEN I WAS PRIME MINISTER
LEADING MY PARTY, THE POLITICS
OF PROTEST, YOU’RE THE PERSON
STANDING WITH THE BANNER, RIGHT?
THE POLITICS OF GOVERNMENT, YOUR
FACE IS ON THE BANNER.
>> IT’S ALL YOURS.
IF YOU’RE NOT PREPARED FOR THAT,
STICK WITH THE POLITICS OF
PROTEST.
PROTEST. BUT ALWAYS REMEMBER YOU’RE
PROTESTING AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE
IN GOVERNMENT.
IN GOVERNMENT. >> ALL RIGHT.
FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER
TONY BLAIR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN HE
BROUGHT THE BIRTHDAY CAKE TO YOU
ON YOUR 50th BIRTHDAY?
>> I DO.
>> I DO. IT WAS 18 YEARS AGO ON MY 50th
BIRTHDAY.
BIRTHDAY. >> IT’S GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
I WILL BE CHEERING FOR NEW
CASTLE THIS WEEKEND.
>> THANK YOU AND I’LL BE
CHEERING FOR LIVERPOOL.
>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING
ON.
ON. COMING UP, CONGRESSMAN HAKEEM
JEFFRIES.
JEFFRIES. AS THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES
STAKE OUT THEIR GROUND ON HEALTH
CARE AND TAXES.
AND SPEAKING OF THAT, WITH
MONDAY’S TAX DEADLINE FAST
APPROACHING, KNOW YOUR VALUE
CONTRIBUTOR IS LAYING OUT THE
KEY WAYS WOMEN CAN MAKE THE MOST
ON THEIR REFUND.
AFTER ALL, SHE WROTE THE BOOK ON
"WOMEN WITH MONEY."
IT ABOUT TAKING TIME TO INVEST
YOU IN IN THE LONG TERM.
TO SIGN UP FOR THE KNOW YOUR