LIZ: WE'VE GOT THIS HEATED
DEBATE OVER SOCIALISM VERSUS
CAPITALISM.
IT'S CERTAINLY MOUNTING TO WHAT
WE BELIEVE IS ITS HIGHEST LEVELS
IN DECADES.
FRESHMAN CONGRESSWOMAN
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ AND
2020 PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL BERNIE
SANDERS HAVE REALLY LIT A FIRE,
REIGNITING THIS ARGUMENT, AND AS
WE BRING YOU BOTH SIDES THIS
WEEK, WE BEGIN WITH A
SELF-DESCRIBED HARDCORE
CAPITALIST, BILLIONAIRE INVESTOR
MARK CUBAN.
I HAD A ONE-ON-ONE WITH HIM AND
BEGAN BY ASKING HIM WHAT HIS
FIRST REACTION WAS TO THIS
BREWING DRAGON BATTLE AS IT
APPEARS TO SUDDENLY BE REARING
ITS HEAD AGAIN.
>> OBVIOUSLY I'M A HARDCORE
CAPITALIST AND HAVE BEEN MY
ENTIRE LIFE.
BIG PROPONENT OF BUSINESS.
AND MY HONEST ANSWER TO THAT IS
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE TRULY
UNDERSTAND WHAT SOCIALISM IS
WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT SOCIALISM,
WHETHER IT'S BERNIE SANDERS,
WHETHER IT'S AOC.
I THINK THEY RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S
A TRIGGER WORD AND THEY USE IT
JUST TO GET PEOPLE ALL RILED UP
AS OPPOSED TO REALLY BEING
SOCIALIST.
BERNIE SANDERS JUST RELEASED A
BOOK AND WAS ALL EXCITED ABOUT
MAKING $1 MILLION.
MORE POWER TO HIM.
LIZ: BUT YES, YOU UNDERSTAND OR
DO YOU WHY THIS IS SUDDENLY
BEING GENERATED AS A TOPIC OF
CONVERSATION.
WE HAVE THE LARGEST WEALTH GAP
OF ANY DEVELOPED NATION.
>> WITHOUT QUESTION.
LIZ: SO OF COURSE IT WON'T
SURPRISE YOU THAT PEOPLE ARE
STARTING TO DROP THAT TRIGGER
WORD YOU TALKED ABOUT.
>> THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU
SOLVE INCOME INEQUALITY.
THE COUNTRY, THE CONSTITUTION, I
DON'T THINK ANYBODY TRULY
BELIEVES SWITCHING TO SOCIALISM
IS GOING TO BRIDGE THAT GAP.
BUT I DO THINK IT'S A
CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO
HAVE, BECAUSE INCOME INEQUALITY
LEADS TO SOCIAL DISRUPTION AND
THE BIGGEST RISK TO THIS COUNTRY
AND THE BIGGEST RISK TO ALL
BUSINESSES ARE, YOU KNOW, IS
VIOLENCE AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT
TO SOLVE.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE DO IT.
LIZ: ANY IDEAS, MR. CUBAN?
>> YEAH, LOTS OF IDEAS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO INVEST MORE
IN EDUCATION.
LOOK, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO
DO THINGS.
AS A CAPITALIST WHO HAS ALWAYS
LEANED LIBERTARIAN, HISTORICALLY
I HAVE BEEN AGAINST BIG
GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS BUT I THINK
WHAT'S CHANGING NOW IS WE ARE
BECOMING SO MUCH MORE
TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED THAT WE
HAVE TO GO FROM THE OLD DAYS OF
GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS BEING 10,000
BUREAUCRATS COMING TO A
COMPROMISE THAT DOESN'T WORK TO
REALLY STARTING TO UNDERSTAND
GOVERNMENT AS A SERVICE AND
INTRODUCING PROGRAMS THAT
LEVERAGE DATA, BECAUSE NOT ALL
COMMUNITIES, DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES, ARE THE SAME.
WE HAVE TO CUSTOMIZE THINGS.
WE HAVE TO LEARN WHAT PROGRAMS
WORK.
DATA TELLS US THIS.
YOU ADD A LITTLE DATA, A LITTLE
COMPASSION, LITTLE COMPASSIONATE
CAPITALISM BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE
THE MONEY WILL COME FROM AND I
THINK WE CAN FIND SOLUTIONS.
LIZ: DO YOU THINK THE CURRENT
ADMINISTRATION CAN DO THAT OR IS
DOING THAT?
>> I THINK CMS IS DOING A LOT.
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, WITH
SECRETARY AZAR, THEY ARE
REALLY -- ONE OF THE CHALLENGES
WITH HEALTH CARE AND THE COST OF
HEALTH CARE REALLY PUSHES DOWN
SO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE
LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY, FACE THE
GREATEST CHALLENGES.
WHETHER IT'S SPREADING MEDICAID,
YOU KNOW, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT
THAT, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT
WHEN YOU CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH
CARE, YOU CAN'T GO TO SCHOOL AND
BE HEALTHY, SO WHAT CMS IS
DOING, THEY ARE TAKING OUT A LOT
OF THE SILOS THAT THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES CREATED THAT THE ACA
CREATED AND MAKING IT A MUCH
MORE DATA-DRIVEN ENVIRONMENT
THROUGH THE BLUE BUTTON PROGRAM,
THROUGH OTHER DATA-DRIVEN
EVALUATIONS OF PAYMENT PROGRAMS
THEY HAVE, AND I THINK IT'S NOT
SOMETHING THAT CHANGES HEALTH
CARE FOR DISADVANTAGED
POPULATIONS TOMORROW, BUT IT'S
THE RIGHT FIRST STEP.
LIZ: YOU'VE GOT THE PULITZER
PRIZE WINNING AUTHOR COMING OUT
AND TALKING ABOUT PROGRESSIVE
CAPITALISM WHICH MAYBE IS A
HYBRID BETWEEN SOCIALISM AND
CAPITALISM.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S
TALKING ABOUT AND DO YOU AGREE?
>> I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY, I
HAVEN'T READ IT BUT WE HAVE
ALWAYS BEEN A HYBRID.
YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ONLY AS STRONG
AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK, WHETHER
YOU ARE A BUSINESS OR A COUNTRY
OR A COMMUNITY.
SO WE HAD SOCIAL SECURITY, YOU
KNOW, WE'VE HAD MEDICARE.
WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN A HYBRID.
WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN AS
EFFECTIVE AS WE HAVE NEEDED TO
BE.
I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES
IS, YOU KNOW, THE GREATEST
PRODUCTS IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW
ARE SHARES OF STOCK.
THAT'S HOW RICH PEOPLE GET
RICHER.
SO WE'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH
WAYS THAT -- SO THAT IT'S EASY
FOR ME TO GET RICHER.
IT'S HARDER FOR SOMEBODY THAT
WORKS FOR ME THAT, YOU KNOW, AND
I'M TRYING TO RAISE WAGES IN MY
COMPANY SO EVERYBODY IS MAKING
AT LEAST $15 BUT IT'S HARDER FOR
ME EVEN WHEN I SHARE EQUITY TO
BRING THEM UP IN A WAY THAT THEY
CAN TRULY PROSPER.
LIZ: EARLIER THIS MONTH, I SPOKE
WITH WARREN BUFFETT IN OMAHA,
NEBRASKA, AND DURING HIS
SHAREHOLDER MEETING, HE LOOKED
AT THE AUDIENCE AND SAID I'M A
CARD-CARRYING CAPITALIST.
>> AMEN.
I HAD LUNCH WITH WARREN THIS
WEEK, ACTUALLY.
WE WENT TO DAIRY QUEEN.
HE GOT CHERRY COKE, I GOT MY
BLIZZARD.
YES.
I'M A CARD-CARRYING CAPITALIST,
TOO, BUT WARREN WILL BE THE
FIRST TO TELL YOU HE LOVES THE
EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT.
HE WANTS TO BRING THE BOTTOM UP
BECAUSE INSTABILITY AT THE
BOTTOM, THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THE
LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY SAVE THE
GREATEST PERCENTAGE OF THEIR
INCOME SO IT'S INCUMBENT UPON
CAPITALISTS LIKE ME TO PAY
ATTENTION.
IN ANY BUSINESS YOU HAVE TO LOOK
AT THE SHORT AND LONG TERM,
RIGHT?
AND AS SOMEONE WHO IS WEALTHY,
AS SOMEONE WHO IS LOOKING TO
BENEFIT THE COMPANY, EVERY
CAPITALIST HAS GOT TO DO THE
SAME THING.
WE'VE GOT TO SAY LOOK, IF WE AT
THE TOP MAKE A LITTLE BIT LESS
AND WE HELP THOSE AT THE BOTTOM
MORE, CAPITALISM GETS STRONGER.
IT'S NOT SOCIALISM, IT'S
STRONGER AND SMARTER AND BETTER
CAPITALISM.
I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON US.
THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL
ABOUT.
THE PEOPLE WHO BUSTED THEIR BUTT
AND WORKED THEIR WAY TO THE TOP
CAME UP WITH BETTER IDEAS AND
THAT'S HOW THEY BECAME
SUCCESSFUL.
IT DOESN'T STOP WHEN IT COMES
TIME TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE THAT
ARE LESS FORTUNATE.
THOSE ARE MY POSITIONS.
FOLKS A LITTLE BIT RICHER,
LITTLE BIT LESS WEALTHY, WE HAVE
TO TAKE THOSE STEPS TO RECOGNIZE
IF WE DON'T DO IT, THE