[MUSIC] As we're filming this on
Thursday, supposedly the House is
on the precipice of finally passing
the Equality Act.
But what is it?
What will it accomplish?
Why are so many Republicans
fighting so hardcore against it?
We're joined by a guest who is
going to help explain all of
that and more to us.
The Executive Director of
the National Black Justice
Coalition David Johns joins us now.
David, welcome to the show.
>> Thank you for having me.
>> Glad to have you here.
So, for people who might
not have been following this act,
what is it about?
How did it get started, and
what is it intended to accomplish?
>> Yeah, I appreciate that.
Three responses to those questions.
The Equality Act aims to provide
clear and consistent protections to
prevent people from being
discriminated against, experiencing
hate crimes, or other forms
of harassment, as a result of sex.
So the technical language is on
the basis of sex.
So acknowledging the discrimination
that women face, also with
regard to sexual identity,
gender orientation, or expression.
So lots of support for
members of the LGBTQIA+ community.
The origins of the bill harken back
to the Civil Rights Act of the 60s,
64 in particular,
as well as the Americans with
Disabilities Act.
And then, more recently, last year,
the Supreme Court in the Bostock
decision essentially affirmed that
employers should not
be discriminating against people
based on actual or
perceived sexual identity,
gender orientation, or expression.
And so, in total, this bill is
important because it is the sad
reality now in too many states
throughout the country that people
don't have access to things that we
might otherwise take for granted.
Public accommodations, things like
being able to ride in an Uber,
walk into a department store and
buy clothes for a job interview.
Access public housing,
which is often required to complete
a job application, or
otherwise see a doctor, or
access other federal services.
And so this is really about
providing a level playing field for
everyone to have access
to the American dream.
>> Okay, everything that you've
seen there seems very common sense,
very reasonable.
And yet, yesterday,
as of when we're filming this,
there was an attempt to shut down
the House of Representatives
to stop this from being passed.
I'm not an expert, it seems to me
like just old school bigotry.
Is there anything more to
it than that?
>> No, I mean, right?
The answer to most of the questions
around like,
what's wrong in America?
The answer is often white supremacy
and/or bigotry.
To be clear, why is it [INAUDIBLE]
always folks in hoods and
tiki torches.
It shows up in attempting to
prevent everyone from having access
to the same otherwise fundamental
rights that those people are trying
to stop other people
from having access to.
And so it is logical, for people
that understand that diversity
has always made our country great,
that we all benefit when people
have the opportunity to be safe and
fully participate in economic,
civic, and social life.
And that we provide, again,
clear and consistent protections.
It is sadly the reality that one's
ability to be protected, or access
an Uber, be kicked out of an Uber
because of one's feelings, varies
according to the state that you're
in or that you're moving through.
So this is really about filling
gaps so that we can all stand on
equal footing.
>> So, as you described in your
opening remarks,
this is going to provide a couple
different forms of protections.
It's going to protect a lot of
different types of people, but,
in particular, for
communities of color,
what impact is this going to have?
>> Yeah, so it is important for me
to remind people that not all LGBTQ
people are white and not all black
people are cis and heterosexual.
As long as there have been black
people, we've been incredibly
diverse and many black LGBTQIA+
people live in the South.
We are disproportionately
concentrated with other
black folks, and
we live in states where it is legal
to deny us access to housing,
employment, the things that I've
talked about and referenced over
the course of this conversation.
And so, too often, especially in
moments like February,
which provides for federal
recognition of Black History Month.
We celebrate the work of Dr.
King, and a legacy of those
who marched in the streets for
us to have access to civil rights,
to think that work is done.
And what we know is that there's
a lot of work yet to be done, and
passing the Equality Act is
a critical step in that direction.
And at the risk of a persnickety,
it's not just about benefiting
black people, which, to be clear,
I care a lot, so I want to make
sure that that happens.
But poor white people who are often
discriminated against too,
in really pernicious ways,
would benefit from the passage of
the Equality Act.
It accounts for the kind of attack
that people experience based on
class and sometimes region as well.
And so I want to be clear that this
is about providing equal access to
all Americans who deserve it.
>> Okay, you talked about more work
that needs to be done.
In the very short term, work needs
to be done outside of the House.
I mean, for this to pass,
the Senate would have to pass
it as well.
Currently, what are your hopes or
expectations for that process?
Is it going to happen?
>> [LAUGH] We shall see,
[LAUGH] right?
What we know is that passage
of the Senate requires members
of the Republican caucus to support
the passage of the bill.
Heretofore, they have not.
And some of them have
hidden behind religious exemptions,
or the attempt to hide bigotry,
and ignorance, and
other forms of discrimination
behind a thin veil of religion.
To be clear, as the grandson
of a Baptist preacher from Texas,
I fundamentally believe that
everyone should have the right to
practice and worship in the way
that they choose.
And so doing should not infringe
upon my ability to enjoy the rights
that you otherwise take for
granted as well.
And so, to be clear, there's a lot
of work to be done in the Senate.
The Senate is historically where
the bill has stalled after being
passed out of the House of
Representatives in every Congress
that has been introduced recently.
And my hope is that this moment,
and this larger movement might
provide the support that we need in
order for it
to get to President Biden's desk.
>> So let's say hypothetically that
it doesn't,
that no Republicans sign on.
And considering that every
congressional Republican signed on
to Congresswoman Green's attempt to
shut down debate yesterday,
I don't think it's impossible
to assume that maybe there won't.
If that is the case,
if they're not able to get enough
Republicans to cross over, there's
this conversation that's been going
on over the past month or so
about the future of the filibuster.
And some critics of the continued
existence of the filibuster say
that we can talk about traditions,
and debate, and bipartisanship,
partisanship, and blah, blah, blah.
But historically, the filibuster,
at least up until the last few
years, the big instances of it
being used were
to stop civil rights legislation.
We might experience the filibuster
stopping more civil rights
legislation.
If no Republicans cross over, and
the filibuster stops
the Equality Act from being passed,
is this evidence that
the filibuster needs to go?
And more pressure perhaps on
the couple of Democrats that
are opposed to getting rid of it?
>> It could be, and I think,
beyond that, it's an invitation for
us to talk about what civics looks
like at this current moment in
the history of our country.
And what it means for
there to be elected representatives
who do not seem to respond to where
it is that their constituents are.
Should be lost or no one that more
than 70% of Americans support
legislation like the Equality Act,
and it's likely a larger
number at this moment in time.
And if, in fact, again, the United
States senators representing those
people are not operating in ways
that are consistent with their
wishes, then we need to have other
conversations about ways to hold
elected officials accountable.
>> Okay, so that was one
hypothetical.
Let's go in the opposite direction.
Hypothetically, it passes,
Joe Biden signs it, we celebrate.
What's the next step look like?
What would you want to be a
follow-up to, finally, the passage
of the Equality Act happening?
>> Yeah, I think that there are at
least three things that I
would hope for.
One is that there is also concerted
support in implementing
the Equality Act.
It should be lost on no one that
signing the bill into law would not
immediately change the realities of
people who need it and
who are otherwise hiding behind
it the very next day.
And so we will continue to work to
ensure that it is implemented in
a way that allows people to show up
and access public accommodations
and other essential needs, right?
So that's one.
The second thing is that we
continue to try and challenge and
change the way that people think
about minoritized and
stigmatized communities.
But really, shifting why we need
this federal protection to prevent
people from acting in ways that
otherwise might come close to being
a hate crime or a federal offense.
And then the last thing,
just to acknowledge that again,
especially in the states where
black LGBTQ people are concentrated
in the South.
There's still other legal
impediments that prevent us from
having the kinds of conversations
that we're having now, or
the kind of work that would allow
people to play
evenly on a level playing field.
I think, in this moment,
as an elementary school teacher,
about states that have no promo
homo laws.
[INAUDIBLE] About things connected
to LGBTQIA people histories
are ways of making meaning.
And so there's still a lot of work
to be done at the state level in
many states in order to ensure that
people can show up and be happy,
healthy, and home.
>> Okay, well, so,
no matter what happens today,
the work isn't done.
But, hopefully, at least that step
will be passed and David Johns,
we appreciate you joining us and
breaking it all down.
>> Thank you for the invitation.
[MUSIC]