>> Steve: TRANSIT USERS COULD BE RIDING FREE OF CHARGE ON THE CONFEDERATION LINE ALL DECEMBER
LONG.
THE BAD NEWS IS THAT SHINY NEW LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT LINE WOULD HAVE TO BE BACK IN SERVICE BY
THEN.
IT DERAILED IN MID-SEPTEMBER AND HAS BEEN OUT OF SERVICE EVER SINCE.
HERE TO FILL US IN ON THE WHOLE STORY, FROM THE DOWNTOWN IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL, THERE'S:
JOANNE CHIANELLO, CITY JOURNALIST FOR CBC OTTAWA.
JOANNE, IT'S BEEN TOO LONG SINCE WE'VE HAD YOU ON THIS PROGRAM.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
HOW ARE YOU?
>> Joanne Chianello: ABSOLUTELY, YES.
AND I THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LRT LAST TIME TOO, SO IT'S A STORY THAT KEEPS ON
GIVING OVER HERE.
>> Steve: THAT DOES NOT SURPRISE ME.
TAKE US BACK A BIT AND DO SOME BACKGROUND HERE.
IT WAS THE WEEK OF THE LRT'S SECOND ANNIVERSARY THAT IT ACTUALLY, I GATHER, CONKED OUT.
HOW WELL WAS IT WORKING BEFORE THAT HAPPENED?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MIGHT REMEMBER BACK WHEN IT ACTUALLY LAUNCHED IN SEPTEMBER OF 2019.
SO THIS SYSTEM IS JUST OVER TWO YEARS IN PUBLIC SERVICE.
AND IT HAD A GREAT FIRST MONTH WHEN THE BUSES WERE STILL RUNNING, AND THEN -- I HATE TO
USE THE PUN -- BUT THE WHEELS STARTED TO FALL OFF, YOU KNOW?
A LOT OF PROBLEMS ENDED UP HAPPENING.
AND THERE WERE [transmission difficulties] AT THE TRANSIT STATION TO WALK THROUGH, THERE
WERE PICTURING OF JUST HORDES OF PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREETS WHEN THE TRAIN STOPPED TO TRY TO
GET TO WORK.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAD A HUGE LIST OF EARLY PROBLEMS.
I'M GOING TO -- THEY'RE SO LONG I HAVE TO READ IT FROM A PIECE OF PAPER.
THERE WERE DOORJAMBS AND BREAK ISSUES AND SWITCH ISSUES.
AT CHRISTMAS TIME THERE WAS ARCING -- THEY CALL IT ARCING BUT IT'S SPARKS ON THE OVERHEAD
LINE, WHICH IS NEVER A GOOD SIGN.
AND NEW YEAR'S EVE, THE SYSTEM SHUT DOWN.
IT STRANDED LIKE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET TO PARTIES AND OTHER PLACES.
ONE TIME A GIANT PIECE OF THE CABLE FELL DOWN, YOU KNOW, AND THEN LAST SUMMER WE SAW THAT
WHEELS WERE FLATTENING OUT WAY BEFORE THEY SHOULD.
WHEELS WERE CRACKING, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD IS
STILL INVESTIGATING TO THIS DAY AND THEY'RE HAVING TO REPLACE ALL THOSE WHEELS.
AND NOW WE'VE COME TO THE FALL OF DERAILMENTS.
NOW, FOR, YOU KNOW, I'D SAY ABOUT 8 OR 9 MONTHS, THE SYSTEM WAS WORKING OKAY.
WE DIDN'T HAVE ALL 15 TRAINS OUT RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME.
BUT IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T SHUT DOWN FOR DAYS AT A TIME.
THAT'S A LOW BAR BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS WORKING ALL RIGHT.
NOW, OF COURSE, DURING THE PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PUBLIC SERVANTS HERE IN OTTAWA SO A LOT
OF PEOPLE WORKING FROM HOME.
SO THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF EYES ON THE STREET, SO TO SPEAK.
BUT IT WAS WORKING ALL RIGHT.
AND THEN IN AUGUST A TRAIN DERAILED.
AUGUST 8TH.
HAPPILY NO PASSENGERS ON BOARD.
AND THAT WAS THE FIRST DERAILMENT.
AND THEN IT WAS CONNECTED TO THE SECOND DERAILMENT IN SEPTEMBER, JUST A MONTH LATER, THAT HAS
SHUT IT DOWN FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
>> Steve: IS THERE YET AN OFFICIAL EXPLANATION FOR WHY THAT HAPPENED?
>> OKAY.
WELL, YOU END UP HAVING TO BE SORT OF A LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER TO DO THIS JOB SOMETIMES.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WAS, THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE AXLE BEARING.
YOU KNOW, THE AXLE IS THAT BAR THAT GOES ACROSS THE TRAIN AND THERE'S TWO BEARINGS AND SCREWS
ON THE ENDS THAT ATTACH THE WHEELS TO THAT AXLE, AND THE FIRST TIME AROUND, THERE WAS A
BEARING ISSUE.
IT BROKE FOR SOME REASON.
IT BECAME LOOSE AND A WHEEL BROKE OFF.
SO THAT WAS IN AUGUST.
THE FOLKS THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS SYSTEM, THEY INVESTIGATED ALL THE TRAINS.
THEY HAD TO REPAIR NINE OF THEM.
WE'RE STILL NOT SURE WHAT THOSE REPAIRS MEAN, IF THEY GOT NEW BEARINGS OR NEW TIGHTENINGS UP,
BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS ONE OF THE TRAINS THAT WAS REPAIRED, IT TURNS OUT NOW THAT THE BEARING
WAS NOT TIGHTENED PROPERLY, AND IT WAS ALSO NOT ACTUALLY WRITTEN DOWN BY THE MAINTENANCE PEOPLE.
SO A TRAIN THAT DIDN'T HAVE THE BEARING TORQUED PROPERLY WAS SENT OUT INTO SERVICE, AND SO ON
SEPTEMBER 19TH, THE TRAIN DERAILED BEFORE GOING INTO A STATION.
IT TRAVELLED -- HERE IS SOME ALARMING STUFF ABOUT THIS -- IT TRAVELLED FOR ABOUT 400 METRES
IN A DERAILED STATE, INCLUDING TRAVELLING OVER A RAIL BRIDGE OVER A 6-LANE STREET BEFORE
COMING TO A STOP.
THERE WAS NO ACTUAL SIGNAL TO THE OPERATOR THAT IT HAD DERAILED.
THERE WAS NO WAY TO KNOW THAT.
AND IN FACT WE'RE NOT SURE -- THE TRAIN ACTUALLY HIT A SWITCH CONTROL BOX, SO SORT OF A PIECE
OF EQUIPMENT ON THE SIDE OF THE RAIL.
IT ACTUALLY SMASHED INTO IT AND BROKE IT.
THAT'S WHEN IT CAME TO A STOP.
IF IT HADN'T HIT THAT, WE'RE NOT SURE WHETHER THAT TRAIN WOULD EVER HAVE COME TO A STOP.
SO THERE ARE SO MANY ALARMING QUESTIONS NOW.
THAT'S WHY THIS TRAIN SYSTEM IS ON HOLD AT LEAST UNTIL NEXT MONTH, BUT I THINK THAT'S PRETTY
OPTIMISTIC.
>> Steve: NOW, THIS FEELS LIKE A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR A SYSTEM THAT IS STILL RELATIVELY YOUNG,
AND I'M SURE PEOPLE WANT ANSWERS.
HOW EITHER EASY OR DIFFICULT IS IT TO GET ANSWERS AS TO WHY THINGS HAVE BEEN SO UNEVEN SO
FAR?
>> YEAH, IT IS DIFFICULT.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THINGS DO HAPPEN ON RAIL SYSTEMS AND NOTHING THAT WE'VE SEEN IS
SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED ANYWHERE.
THE PROBLEM IS WE'RE SEEING SO MANY OF THEM, SO MANY PROBLEMS HAPPENING IN SUCH A CONCENTRATED
PERIOD OF TIME FOR A SYSTEM, AS YOU SAY, THAT IS SO BRAND NEW.
SO IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT TO GET ANSWERS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S NOT ONE SPECIFIC THING, RIGHT?
AND SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THE DESIGN OF THE ACTUAL SYSTEM, THE
TRACK.
I'M HEARING FROM PEOPLE THAT THERE ARE SOME CURVES IN THE TRACK THAT MIGHT MAKE IT -- THAT
MIGHT BE PUTTING EXTRA WEAR AND TEAR ON THE WHEELS, THE WAY THAT IT'S DESIGNED.
WE ARE ALSO HEARING ABOUT THE TRAINS THEMSELVES, RIGHT?
THESE ARE CALLED THE CITY OF SPIRIT TRAINS.
THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY DESIGNED FOR NORTH AMERICA.
THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN USED BEFORE ANYWHERE BUT HERE AND THEY SEEM TO HAVE JUST AN UNENDING NUMBER
OF PROBLEMS AND, YOU KNOW, VIEWERS IN THE GTA MIGHT WANT TO TAKE NOTE BECAUSE METROLINX
SPENT $500 MILLION BUYING THESE TRAINS ALSO FOR THE FINCH LRT, THE HURONTARIO LRT IN
MISSISSAUGA.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THESE TRAINS.
WERE THESE TRAINS REALLY THE RIGHT ONES FOR THE SYSTEM?
THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
BUT IT'S HARD TO GET ANSWERS BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE CITY.
WE'RE GETTING EVERYTHING SORT OF SECOND AND THIRD HAND.
THIS IS PART OF A PRIVATE PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP WITH A CONSORTIUM OF PRIVATE COMPANIES WHICH IS
SNC-LAVALIN AND DRAGADOS AND ELLIS DON, THESE ARE ALL COMPANIES THAT ARE ALSO BUILDING
LRT SYSTEMS IN THE GREATER TORONTO AREA AS WELL.
THEY ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE OF IT.
WE ARE NOT, AS REPORTERS, ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY INTERVIEW THEM.
AS PART OF THE CONTRACT IN DEALING WITH A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE, IN A P3,
COMMUNICATION LANDS WITH THE CITY.
SO WE'RE ACTUALLY NEVER ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING THIS.
ALSTOM IS A CONTRACTOR, THEY ARE A TRAIN CONTRACTOR.
WE CAN NEVER GET INTERVIEWS WITH ALSTOM.
WE'VE NEVER HAD ANYONE, AN OFFICIAL FROM THE ALSTOM TRAIN MAKER, COME TO CITY HALL TO
ANSWER QUESTIONS IN PUBLIC FROM COUNCILLORS.
AND SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET ANSWERS.
AS WELL, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS COMPLEX SO THERE'S A LOT OF -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ONE BIG
PROBLEM.
I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF ISSUES THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO WORK OUT.
>> Steve: WELL, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE TRANSPORTATION ISSUES THAT YOU'VE ENUMERATED THERE.
THERE ARE ALSO POLITICAL ISSUES RELATED TO THIS AND I WONDER HOW MUCH HEAT THERE HAS BEEN ON THE
CITY IN GENERAL AND ON THE MAYOR IN PARTICULAR?
>> YEAH, HUGE AMOUNTS HERE, OF COURSE, BECAUSE, I MEAN, AS I SAID, WE CAN HAVE A WHOLE SHOW
ON PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIPS, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THE ACCOUNTABILITY REALLY LIES WITH
THE CITY.
I MEAN, SURE, SOMEBODY ELSE HAS BUILT IT AND THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING THAT SYSTEM.
BUT PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW FROM THE CITY, WHY DID YOU ACCEPT THIS SYSTEM, RIGHT?
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT ARE UNANSWERED.
FOR EXAMPLE, DID THE CITY ACCEPT THIS SYSTEM TOO EARLY?
WAS THIS SYSTEM TESTED ENOUGH?
I'LL GIVE YOU ONE QUICK EXAMPLE.
THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE SUMMER OF 2019, JUST BEFORE THE SYSTEM OPENED, A 12-DAY
CONSECUTIVE TESTING SYSTEM.
WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN HOW THE TRAIN SYSTEM HAD TO WORK PERFECTLY FOR 12 DAYS IN A ROW
OR ELSE THE CITY WOULDN'T TAKE IT OVER.
WELL, IT DIDN'T WORK PERFECTLY FOR 12 DAYS IN A ROW.
THERE WAS A PAUSE.
NOBODY WAS TOLD ABOUT IT.
IN FACT, THROUGH SOME REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION, CBC FOUND OUT THAT THE GENERAL MANAGER FOR THE
TRANSIT SYSTEM WROTE A MEMO SAYING THAT THE TESTING WAS PAUSED FOR 48 HOURS, BUT THAT
MEMO WAS NEVER SENT OUT.
SO THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS NOW ABOUT, WAS THERE ANY POLITICAL PRESSURE TO GET IT OUT
SOONER?
WHY DID THE CITY ACCEPT A SYSTEM THAT WHEN ONLY 13 TRAINS WERE WORKING INSTEAD OF WHAT WE WERE
ALWAYS TOLD WAS 15 TRAINS INSTEAD?
AND THERE WERE A GROUP OF COUNCILLORS AND A NUMBER IN THE CITY, INCLUDING THE FORMER
MAYOR, BOB CHIARELLI, CALLING FOR A JUDICIAL INQUIRY INTO THIS.
THERE WAS A LOT OF -- A VERY RAUCOUS COUNCIL MEETING A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHERE COUNCILLOR
DIANE DEANS WAS CALLING FOR JUDICIARY INQUIRY.
THE MAYOR TURNED OFF HER MICROPHONE.
SO THAT WAS A BIG BROUHAHA.
IN THE END MAYOR JIM WATSON AND HIS SUPPORTERS WENT FOR AN AUDIT INSTEAD.
THE CITY'S AUDITOR GENERAL IS GOING TO LOOK INTO EVERYTHING FROM HOW THIS THING WAS
PROCURED, WHAT OVERSIGHT THE CITY HAD, AND FRANKLY WHETHER THEY ACCEPTED IT TOO SOON.
THE PROBLEM IS A JUDICIAL REVIEW WOULD HAVE GONE FARTHER THAN THAT.
SO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT A JUDICIAL REVIEW, AS I SAID, DIANE DEANS WHO LOOKS LIKE SHE
IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR MAYOR NEXT YEAR, SHE SAYS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE?
THE JUDICIAL REVIEW IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER POLITICIANS WERE INVOLVED,
RIGHT?
AND AN AUDITOR GENERAL CAN'T.
SO IT'S BECOME SUPER MESSY POLITICALLY AND I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF IT ISN'T A MAJOR
ELECTION ISSUE NEXT YEAR DURING THE MUNICIPAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
>> Steve: I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT DECEMBER BECAUSE THEORETICALLY, IF THIS THING IS
UP AND ROLLING, IT'S GOING TO BE FREE-RIDING IN DECEMBER.
WHAT'S THE EXPECTATION?
>> YEAH.
I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO JUST MAKE IT, IF THEY MAKE IT.
THE MOST OPTIMISTIC VIEW IS MID-NOVEMBER.
I'M TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE TRUE.
IT'S GOING TO BE EARLY IN DECEMBER.
BUT I ALSO KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY NERVOUS NOW ABOUT TAKING IT.
I DON'T THINK THE FREE RIDE IS NECESSARILY GOING TO MAKE THEM FEEL THAT MUCH BETTER.
>> Steve: SO IF THE LRT IS UP AND ROLLING AND IF PEOPLE DO GET TO RIDE FOR FREE, WHO ULTIMATELY
PAYS FOR THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY?
>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY WERE SAYING, THE CITY, THE MAYOR, AND HIS
SUPPORTERS SAID THAT THE RIDEAU TRANSIT GROUP, THAT'S A CONSORTIUM THAT ACTUALLY BUILT
THIS LINE, WILL BE PAYING FOR IT.
BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S SPLITTING HAIRS BECAUSE, FRANKLY, WE ACTUALLY PAY THEM $4 MILLION TO
$5 MILLION EVERY MONTH TO RUN THE SYSTEM AND BECAUSE OF COURSE THE SYSTEM IS DOWN, WE'RE NOT
PAYING THEM.
SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT MONEY TO PAY FOR IT.
IT'S GOING TO COST ABOUT 7-7.5 MILLION DOLLARS.
WE'RE TAKING THE MONEY THAT WE'RE NOT PAYING THEM TO GET THE SYSTEM RUNNING AND LETTING
PEOPLE RIDE IT FOR FREE.
I THINK PEOPLE SEE THIS AS SOMETHING OF A GIMMICK, BUT I'M SURE PEOPLE WILL APPRECIATE IT
TOO.
>> Steve: INDEED.
JOANNE CHIANELLO, CITY REPORTER FOR CBC IN OTTAWA.
IT'S ALWAYS GREAT OF YOU TO GRACE OUR AIRWAVES AND THANKS FOR SHOWING UP ON "THE AGENDA"
TONIGHT.
>> Joanne Chianello: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.