>>> DECLARATION OF WAR. LET’S PLAY HARDBALL.
GOOD EVENING.
GOOD EVENING. I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS IN WASHINGTON
WITH BREAKING NEWS.
AMID THE CRISIS BETWEEN THE
UNITED STATES AND THE LEADERS OF
IRAN AND WITH THE PRESIDENT
STILL UNCLEAR ABOUT HOW TO
RESPOND TO IRAN’S RECENT ATTACK
ON SAUDI ARABIA, PRESIDENT TRUMP
IS NOW UNDER SIEGE AND TAKING
FIRE FROM THE REAR.
FROM HIS RECENTLY FIRED THIRD
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR JOHN
BOLTON.
BOLTON. BOLTON RIPPED THE PRESIDENT’S
FOREIGN POLICY AT NOON TODAY ON
PRACTICALLY EVERY FRONT.
THE NEWS WAS FIRST REPORTED BY
POLITICO.
POLITICO. AN ATTENDEE CONFIRMED THE
ACCOUNT TO NBC NEWS.
BOLTON WHO WAS ATTENDING A
LUNCHEON BREAK AND CONSERVATIVE
THINK TANK WITH HIGH PROFILE
REPUBLICAN FIGURES CRITICIZED
THE PRESIDENT’S WILLINGNESS TO
NEGOTIATE WITH THE TALIBAN AT
CAMP DAVID AND SAID IT SENT A
TERRIBLE SIGNAL.
TERRIBLE SIGNAL. HE ALSO ADDED IT WAS
DISRESPECTFUL TO THE VICTIMS OF
NIEFB BECAUSE THE TALIBAN
HARBORED al-QAEDA.
HARBORED al-QAEDA. ADDITIONALLY BOLTON SAID ANY
NEGOTIATIONS WITH EITHER NORTH
KOREA OR IRAN WERE DOOMED TO
FAILURE
FAILURE FAILURE THERE WAS NO SIGNS
EITHER COUNTRY WAS SERIOUS ABOUT
GIVING UP ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM.
NBC NEWS REACHED OUT TO BOLTON
FOR COMMENT BUT HAVEN’T HEARD
BACK.
BACK. JUST MOMENTS AGO PRESIDENT TRUMP
WAS ASKED ABOUT BOLTON’S ATTACK.
>> THAT’S BETTER THAN SOMEBODY
THAT GOES AROUND SAYING WE WANT
TO USE THE LIBYAN MODEL.
HE SAID THE LIBYAN MODEL.
THAT SET US BACK VERY BADLY WHEN
HE SAID THAT, SO I THINK JOHN
REALLY SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT HOW
BADLY THEY’VE DONE IN THE PAST
AND MAYBE A NEW METHOD WOULD BE
VERY GOOD.
VERY GOOD. NOW, WITH ALL OF THAT BEING
SAID, MAYBE A VERY POWERFUL
ATTACK.
ATTACK. GUYS LIKE BOLTON AND OTHERS
WANTED TO GO INTO IRAQ AND THAT
DIDN’T WORK OUT TOO WELL.
ALL RIGHT, THAT DID NOT WORK OUT
TOO WELL.
TOO WELL. IT WAS -- AND I PUT HIM IN
ANYWAY, AND FRANKLY EVERYBODY
KNOWS IF YOU MOVE WRONG HE WANTS
TO -- YOU KNOW, HE DOESN’T
REALIZE THAT YOU GET STUCK, YOU
GET STUCK.
GET STUCK. AND THEY GOT STUCK, AND I’M
UNSTICKING IT.
UNSTICKING IT. >> WOW, THAT’S PRETTY PROFOUND.
BOLTON’S ATTACK CAME ON THE
MIDST OF AN INTERNATIONAL CRISIS
OF COURSE WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP
IS TRYING TO COBBLE TOGETHER A
COHESIVE RESPONSE OF THE REPEAT
ATTACKS.
ATTACKS. THE CRITICAL COMMENTS CAME ON
THE SAME DAY PRESIDENT TRUMP
ANNOUNCED BOLTON’S REPLACEMENT.
TRUMP SELECTED ROBERT O’BRIEN
CURRENTLY SERVING AS THE STATE
DEPARTMENT’S CHIEF HOSTAGE
SECURITY NEGOTIATOR.
SECURITY NEGOTIATOR. I’M JOINED BY JEREMY BASH,
FORMAL CHIEF OF STAFF AT THE CIA
AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE,
AND CHARLIE SYKES.
THERE HE IS TAKING A SHOT JUST A
FEW MOMENTS AGO AT THE GUY HE
MADE HIS NATIONAL SECURITY
ADVISOR SAYING THAT GUY IS STUCK
THERE, HE DOESN’T WANT TO GET
STUCK, HE DOESN’T WANT TO FOLLOW
THE ADVICE OF THE NEO KONZ LIKE
BOLTON BUT FIGHTING PERSON TO
PERSON AT THE TIME WE’VE GOT TO
DEAL WITH WHAT ARE WE DOING IN
IRAN.
IRAN. >> GIVEN THE WAY HE’S RIPPED
SOME OF HIS CRITICS IN THE PAST
THAT WAS PRETTY RESTRAINED FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. BUT, YOU KNOW, JOHN BOLTON
OBVIOUSLY IS NOT GOING TO GO
QUIETLY.
QUIETLY. AND I THINK IT’S VERY
INTERESTING WHERE HE DELIVERED
THE REMARKS AND WHAT HE SAID.
HE WAS INTRODUCED TO THAT
LUNCHEON BY REBECCA MERCER WHO
WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
DONORS ON THE RIGHT AND
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN CAUSES.
A VERY HIGH POWERED GROUP.
SO THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT,
JOHN BOLTON STILL HAS A
CONSTITUENCY FOR HIS APPROACH TO
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. AND AGAIN THE PROBLEM HERE IS
NOT WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP
IS GOING TO BE TOO HAWKISH OR
TOO DOVISH.
TOO DOVISH. IT’S WHETHER HE’S GOING TO BE
TOO ERRATIC, BLUNDER INTO THIS
AND SEND MIXED SIGNALS.
>> IF YOU WANT TO MAKE NOISE, IF
YOU WANT TO GET WORD OUT YOU DO
IT AT LUNCH IN NEW YORK AND HE
DID IT.
DID IT. HE WANTS THE PRESIDENT TO HEAR
THIS, JOHN BOLTON.
HE WANTS THIS WAR.
>> 100%.
>> 100%. AND KPLAEKTEXACTLY WHAT CHARLIE
IT’S NOT WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE
WE’VE KNOWN AND A NUMBER OF
OTHER ISSUE, HE FELT THE NORTH
KOREA TALKS WERE PROBABLY DOOMED
FROM THE START, BUT IT’S THE
CROWD HE WAS SPEAKING TO.
YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU TRY TO
BASICALLY CREATE A SCHISM WITHIN
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS TO THE
FOREIGN POLICY VIEW, THE
PRESIDENT OBVIOUSLY TAKING A
MORE CONCILIATORY APPROACH WITH
THINGS LIKE RUSSIA, WITH IRAN HE
WAS SAYING HE WAS WILLING TO
TALK TO THEM.
AND JUST BEING WE’VE HAD THREE
SUMMITS WITH THE NORTH KOREANS.
THIS IS A NUMBER OF TRADITIONAL
REPUBLICANS A VERY UNSETTLING
THING.
THING. SO JOHN BOLTON TRYING TO REACH
OUT TO SOME OF THOSE FOLKS AND
SAYING, LISTEN, THIS IS WHAT
WE’RE WORKING WITH AND YOU MAKE
THE DECISION.
THE DECISION. >> HERE’S THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, OUR COMMANDER IN
CHIEF.
CHIEF. WHAT’S HE GOING TO DO NOW?
HE DUMPED THIS GUY JOHN BOLTON
AND HIRES A NEW GUY TODAY.
AT THE SAME TIME HE’S GOT TO
MAKE A BIG DECISION, HOW DO WE
WHACK BACK AT IRAN WITHOUT
STARTING A WAR WHICH HE DOESN’T
WANT?
WANT? >> I DON’T THINK HE’S GOING TO
RESPOND MILITARILY TO THE ATTACK
ON SAUDI ARABIA.
HE DIDN’T RESPOND IN JUNE TO THE
SHOT IRAN TOOK DOWNING AN
AMERICAN AIRCRAFT, WHICH WAS THE
FIRST TIME AN AMERICAN AIRCRAFT
WAS DOWNED BY AN ADVERSARY
NATION IN INTERNATIONAL AIRSPACE
SINCE THE KOREAN WAR.
THIS IS AN ATTACK ON ANOTHER
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. AND POMPEO AND OTHERS CAN GIVE
THEM RHETORICAL SUPPORT.
IT WAS AN ACT OF WAR AGAINST
THEM, NOT US.
>> WHY DID POMPEO SAY IT WAS AN
ACT OF WAR?
HE MEANT AN ACT OF WAR AGAINST
SAUDI?
SAUDI? >> THIS WAS SERIOUS,
UNPRECEDENTED AND DEFINITIVELY
IRAN WHICH ALSO IS IN
ACCURATE --
ACCURATE -- >> IT WAS ONE OF THOSE
INFLECTION POINTS AND ARE EWE
GOING TO GO BACK TO WHAT W DID
AND CHENEY AND LIZ CHENEY STILL
WANTS TO DO, LOOKING FOR WARS
STARTING IN THE MIDDLE EAST, OR
ARE WE GOING TO TRY ANOTHER
APPROACH TO GETTING UNSTUCK.
I DON’T THINK THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE WANT TO GET STUCK AGAIN.
IT’S EASIER TO GO IN THAN IT IS
TO COME OUT.
YOUR THOUGHTS.
YOUR THOUGHTS. >> WELL, THIS IS ALSO WHERE IT’S
VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES TO HAVE
CREDIBILITY AND I RELIABLE
ALLIES, NEITHER OF WHICH THIS
PRESIDENT HAS DONE A VERY GOOD
JOB CULTIVATING HERE.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE KIND OF --
THIS IS THE MOMENT WHERE IF YOU
WANT TO AVOID WAR YOU NEED TO
HAVE MAXIMUM PRESSURE ON THIS
REGIME, AND YOU NEED TO HAVE A
CREDIBLE DIPLOMATIC OFFENSIVE
AGAINST THE IRANIANS WHO ARE
GOING TO KEEP TESTING HIM UNTIL
THERE’S SOME SORT OF RESPONSE.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS, YOU KNOW,
HAS TRUMP ASSEMBLED THAT KIND OF
COALITION.
COALITION. >> CHARLIE, YOU JUST ANSWERED
THE QUESTION.
THE QUESTION. HE’S GOT NETANYAHU, HE MAY BE
GONE IN A WEEK.
I DON’T KNOW WHO HIS FRIENDS
ARE, THIS PRESIDENT.
I HOPE WE HAVE LONG LASTING
FRIENDS BUT WE’VE BEEN
BUTCHERING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.
YOUR THOUGHTS, HOW DO YOU DO IT
AT THIS POINT?
HOW DO WE GO AFTER --
>> WELL, AGAIN, THIS IS THE
PROBLEM THAT HE HAS.
HE NEEDS TO BE BELIEVABLE.
HE NEEDS TO BE CREDIBLE.
WHEN HE MAKES A THREAT, HE NEEDS
TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON IT.
I THINK A LOT OF THE WORLD IS
LOOKING AT DONALD TRUMP AND
THINKING WE GOT THIS GUY, WE
UNDERSTAND HOW HE BLUFFS, AND
THEREFORE WE CAN KEEP TESTING
HIM.
HIM. THE ONE THING DONALD TRUMP --
THE REAL DANGER IS THAT DONALD
TRUMP DOES NOT WANT TO APPEAR TO
BE WEAK.
BE WEAK. HE DOES NOT WANT TO APPEAR TO BE
BACKING DOWN, WHICH COULD LEAD
TO THE KIND OF MISCALCULATION
THAT LEADS TO WAR.
>> WELL, POMPEO’S TOUGH MESSAGE
ON IRAN WAS ENACTED ON CAPITOL
HILL TODAY BY SENATOR LINDSEY
GRAHAM.
GRAHAM. LET’S LISTEN TO HIM AND HIS
UNUSUAL BREAK WITH PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
TRUMP. >> THIS ATTACK ON AN OIL
REFINERY BY ANY REASONABLE
DEFINITION IS AN ACT OF WAR.
IT IS ATTACKING THE WORLD
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. IT’S A STABILITY OF THE OIL
MARKETS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
>> WELL, ON THE OPPOSITE END OF
THE SPECTRUM LIZ CHENEY WENT
EVEN FURTHER IN THE RIGHT WING
DIRECTION TELLING A REPORTER THE
UNITED STATES SHOULD CONSIDER A
PROPORTIONAL MILITARY RESPONSE.
UTAH SENATOR MITT ROMNEY OERPD
WHILE AGREEING IRAN WAS
RESPONSIBLE DOESN’T SEE THE
UNITED STATES HAS TO SOMEBODY AT
ALL.
ALL. HERE’S MITT ROMNEY.
>> THIS IS UP TO SAUDI ARABIA.
WE’VE BEEN SELLING THEM WEAPONS
OVER THE YEARS SO THAT THEY’RE
ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES BUT
WE’RE NOT THE POLICEMAN OF THE
WORLD.
WORLD. AND IF IRAN ATTACKS SAUDI
ARABIA, SAUDI ARABIA SHOULD BE
THE NATION WHO DECIDES EXACTLY
HOW THEY’RE GOING TO RESPOND.
>> JEREMY, SOMETIMES THAT GUY
TALKS LIKE A PRESIDENT AND I
LIKE IT.
LIKE IT. RESTRAINT, INTELLIGENCE, A SMART
USE OF OUR POWER.
NOT PROPORTIONAL RESPONSE,
SOMEBODY WHO SHOOTS A SPITBALL,
WE DON’T SHOOT IT BACK.
>> RYAN O’BRIEN, THE NEW
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR
ACTUALLY ADVISED MITT ROMNEY.
AND I THINK O’BRIEN REALLY COMES