MORE AID TO THOSE COUNTRIES. WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE?
WHY SHOULD WE?
>> HERE’S THE RUB.
THE U.S. HAS AN OUTSIZED ROLE IN
WHY THESE COUNTRIES ARE AS
UNSTABLE AS THEY ARE TODAY.
WHERE DID MS-13 ORIGINATE?
THIS COUNTRY.
THIS COUNTRY. WHERE IS THE DEMAND FOR
NARCOTICS COMING FROM?
THIS COUNTRY.
THIS COUNTRY. AND WHO ENGINEERED IN
OVERTHROWING GUATEMALA’S
OVERTHROWING GUATEMALA’S GOVERNMENT DECADES AGO?
YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT ONE.
THIS COUNTRY.
THIS COUNTRY. THAT’S JUST THE START OF IT.
THOSE ARE SOME OF THE ROOT
CAUSES OF OUR LATIN AMERICA
POLICY ISSUES I’M JOINED BY
JASON MARZAK.
JASON MARZAK. WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
>> THANKS, TODD.
WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THE
BORDER.
BORDER. BUT THIS HAS BEEN A FIVE-YEAR
ISSUE NOW WHERE WE HAVE SEEN
THIS INCREASE IN MIGRATION FROM
CENTRAL AMERICA.
CENTRAL AMERICA. THINGS HAVEN’T BEEN STABLE IN
CENTRAL AMERICA IT SEEMS MY
ENTIRE LIFETIME.
ENTIRE LIFETIME. YOU LOOK AT DANIEL ORTEGA AND
YOU ARE LIKE I THOUGHT HE WAS
GONE, NOW HE IS BACK AGAIN.
I READ THERE IS ONE CITY TRYING
TO SECEDE, TO COVER THEMSELVES.
HOW UNSTABLE ARE THESE
COUNTRIES?
COUNTRIES? START WITH GUATEMALA.
>> FIRST OF ALL THREE COUNTRIES.
GUATEMALA HAD A CIVIL WAR FOR
OVER 30 YEARS.
YOU MENTIONED GOING BACK TO 1954
AND THE UNITED FRUIT COMPANY.
AND THAT CIVIL WAR, 200,000
DIED.
DIED. IT DIDN’T END UNTIL THE 199 0s.
>> A DEFINITION OF A WAR TORN
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. >> THAT’S RECENT.
DEFINITION OF A WAR TORN
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. EL SALVADOR.
EL SALVADOR. FROM 1989 TO 1992.
SIGNIFICANT DEATHS, PEACE ACCORD
IS NOT SIGNED UNTIL THE 1990s.
AGAIN, EL SALVADOR IS REELING
FROM RECUPERATING FROM THAT
DECADE-PLUS OF CIVIL WAR.
>> THEN THERE IS HONDURAS WHICH
I GUESS OF THE THREE FEELS THE
MOST STABLE RIGHT NOW?
>> HONDURAS -- YES, BUT HONDURAS
ALSO HAD AN INCREDIBLY CONTESTED
ELECTION LATE LAST YEAR WHERE
THE OAS QUESTIONED THE ELECTION
RESULTS AND IT TOOK QUITE SOME
TIME UNTIL THE PRESIDENT
HERNANDEZ WAS ACTUALLY
DESIGNATED TO BE THE NEXT
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT IRREGULARITIES IN
HONDURAS.
HONDURAS. THOSE THREE COUNTRIES AT OUR
CENTER WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSING ON
DOING STUDIES AND LOOKING AT HOW
TO WE PROVIDE BETTER CONDITIONS
IN THOSE COUNTRIES TO CONVINCE
PEOPLE TO STAY.
PEOPLE DON’T WANT TO LEAVE IF
THEY DON’T HAVE TO LEEB.
>> WHAT COULD BE DONE?
LOOK, I FEEL AS IF THAT WE HAVE
HAD -- EVERY ADMINISTRATION IN
MY LIFETIME, I GREW UP IN MIAMI
AND IT AMENDMENT IS LIKE EVERY
OTHER YEAR WE WERE GETTING
REFUGEES FROM A LATIN AMERICAN
COUNTRY DEAL WITH A POLITICAL
CRISIS AT ANY MOMENT IN TIME.
YOU HAVE THE VARIOUS
NEIGHBORHOODS IN MIAMI THAT
REPRESENT THESE VARIOUS POINTS
TIME.
TIME. IT’S BEEN THIS INSTABLE.
A LOT OF IT IS FRANKLY AN
ABDICATION OF AMERICAN
LEADERSHIP.
LEADERSHIP. PRESIDENTED ARE DRAWN INTO THE
MIDDLE EAST, ASIA, DRAWN INTO
EUROPE.
EUROPE. LATIN IS ALWAYS I’LL GET TO IT
LATER.
LATER. GET TO IT LATER.
WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE OF
GETTING IT TO LATER.
>> PAYING THE PRICE.
THIS IS US THE ADMINISTRATION
THAT CARES SO DEEPLY ABOUT THE
REGION.
REGION. OUR CENTER CARES DEEPLY ABOUT
THE REGION.
THE REGION. WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE.
THE U.S. RAMPED UP EFFORTS IN
2014.
2014. THAT WAS THE LAST TIME WE HAD
MAJOR MEDIA FOCUS ON THE REGION
WHEN YOU HAD 250,000
UNACCOMPANIED MINORS CROSSING
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. AT THAT TIME $750 MILLION WAS
APPROVED THROUGH CONGRESS.
THAT FUNDING CONTINUED FOR THE
LAST FEW YEARS.
>> BUT THE PRESIDENT IS
THREATENING TO GET RID OF IT.
>> THREATEN.
>> THREATEN. LAST YEAR HIS ORIGINAL BUDGET
REQUEST WAS TO REDUCE THE
FENDING TO THE THREE COUNTRIES,
CONGRESS IN THE END APPROPRIATED
FUNDS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE
SEEN IN THE PAST.
>> WHAT IS IT THAT WE COULD DO.
I HAVE TO SAY OKAY, IT IS LIKE
WHO ARE WE GIVING THE MONEY TO?
DO WE TRUST DANIEL ORTEGA.
>> THE MONEY GOES TO PART THIS
COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY.
COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY. THERE IS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT
MECHANISMS THAT ENSURE THE
TRANSPARENCY OF THE MONEY.
CONGRESS HAS PUT IN PLACE A
NUMBER OF THING THAT GOVERNMENTS
HAVE TO ABIDE BY IN ORDER TO
ACTUALLY RECEIVE THAT FUNDING.
SO THE FUN IS NOT GOING DIRECTLY
TO THE GOVERNMENTS.
THE MONEY IS GOING THROUGH THE
U.S. AGENCY FOR NATIONAL
DEVELOPMENT AND OTHER THINGS.
>> WHAT SHOULD DO MONEY DO
FIRST?
FIRST? SECURITY?
SECURITY? WHAT IS IT THAT THAT MONEY NEEDS
TO GO TO NOW THAT COULD ACTUALLY
BEGIN TO GIVE PEOPLE HOPE THAT
IT’S WORTH STAYING?
>> IT IS A THREE LEGGED STOOL.
IF YOU TAKE OUT ONE LEG THE
WHOLE STOOL FALLS DOWN.
THAT MEAN NEED TO ADDRESS
SECURITY, NEEDS TO ADDRESS RULE
OF LAW AND GOVERNANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. WITHOUT THOSE THREE KEY PILLARS
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO -- THE
SITUATION WILL CONTINUE TO
WORSEN IN THESE THREE COUNTRIES.
>> WHO IS A PARTNER IN LATIN
AMERICA THAT WOULD BE A PARTNER
WITH THE MADE TO?
IS IT THE NEW LEADERSHIP IN
COLOMBIA THAT COULD HELP?
OBVIOUSLY OUR RELATIONS WITH
MEXICO ARE NOT GREAT CONSIDERING
THE LEADER TO LEADER.
IS THERE A WAY THAT THE WESTERN
HEMISPHERE SORT OF GETS TO THE
THAT CAN HELP SO THAT MAYBE EL
SALVADOR DOESN’T WANT JUST TO
HAVE THE AMERICAN BOOGIE MAN
HELPING THEM BUT IT IS THE
ENTIRE HEMISPHERE HELPING THEM.
>> IN 2014 THEY BEGAN TO
IMPLEMENT A SOUTHERN BORDER
PROGRAM ON THE MEXICAN/GUATEMALA
BORDER TO PREVENT MIGRANTS COME
ACROSS FROM GUATEMALA.
ASYLUM ELECTIONS IN MEXICO HAVE
BEEN DOUBLE THE U.S.
APPLICATIONS.
APPLICATIONS. COLOMBIA HAS BEEN HELPFUL.
THE U.S. HAS HAD DIPLOMAT
STRATEGY IN COLOMBIA CALLED
PLANNED COLOMBIA.
PLANNED COLOMBIA. >> OUR RELATIONS WITH THAT --
IT’S BUILDING IS, THE COLOMBIA
MODEL SEEMS TO BE THE ONE MODEL
THAT WORKED.
THAT WORKED. AND IT WAS BIPARTISAN.
IT MOVED FROM CLINTON TO BUSH TO
OBAMA.
OBAMA. NOTHING SEEMED TO CHANGE THERE.
AND IT LOOK LIKE AT LEAST THIS
IS IN THE MIKE PENCE PORTFOLIO?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. YEAH.
YEAH. THE VICE PRESIDENT HAS TAKEN A
COUPLE OF TRIPS DOWN TO THE
REGION.
REGION. HE WILL BE GOING BACK TO THE
REGION AGAIN NEXT WEEK ACTUALLY
TO BRAZIL TO ECUADOR AND TO
GUATEMALA.
GUATEMALA. >> DO THE LEADERS OF THESE
COUNTRIES THINK THIS IS A
PROBLEM THAT THEIR PEOPLE ARE
FLEEING OR DO THEY LOOK AT IT AS
FINE, IT’S LESS PEOPLE I HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT.
WORRY ABOUT. >> THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LEAVING
THESE COUNTRIES ARE SOME OF THE
MOST OUTSTANDING CITIZENS.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SO
INCREDIBLY MOTIVATED TO MAKE
THEIR LIVES BETTER.
>> MILLED CLASS.
>> THEY ARE MAKING THIS
TREACHEROUS JOURNEY NORTH.
THEY DON’T WANT TO BE SEPARATED
FROM THEIR FAMILY OR SEPARATED
FROM THEIR LOVED ONES.
THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE THEY CAN’T
WALK OUT THEIR FRONT DOOR.
>> JASON MARZAK THANKS FOR