Representative Porter, welcome to The Daily Show.
Thank you so much.
Let's jump straight into the issue at hand.
I-I didn't know this before I was reading up on this issue,
but you taught bankruptcy law for years
before joining Congress.
And now, once again, bankruptcy is in the conversation
with Johnson & Johnson.
Them wanting to split off their baby powder company
as a separate entity so that Johnson & Johnson as a whole
can't be held liable for what happened
to so many people out there.
From a bankruptcy expert's point of view,
as somebody who studied it and taught it,
what do you think we're missing in these conversations
when we allow companies to declare bankruptcy
to avoid some sort of, I guess, accountability?
Well, I think this is fundamentally a problem
about preventing corporate abuse.
And bankruptcy's really the tool
that these corporations are using
to avoid liability for the damage
and harms that they caused.
In this case, many, many, many women getting devastating
and deadly cancers from using baby powder laced with asbestos.
Um, but fundamentally,
this isn't really a bankruptcy problem.
It's a larger problem about how do we make sure
that companies that make money are also on the hook
for paying for the harm that they cause along the way.
And that's a problem we see in environmental issues,
with offshore drilling, for example, and oil leaks.
It's a problem that we see with product liability.
Um, and so, this is one more example of it.
But the bankruptcy issue here does, I think, tend
to be a place where corporations have been very successful
at getting off the hook.
Yeah, why does it seem that individuals are held
to a different standard than corporations,
in that if I do something to you,
I would be forced to pay for that,
or I would be forced to make amends
for what I had done,
but if I, as a corporation, did something to you,
I can somehow get off the hook?
We saw that with the Sackler family with the opioid crisis.
You know, millions of Americans are either dead or have...
you know, addicted to drugs because of this opiate crisis.
And I think the key thing that is similar
to the Johnson & Johnson is that they knew.
We find out time and time again that the companies knew
what they were doing was harming people.
It wasn't a mistake.
And then, not only did they not say anything,
but oftentimes, they pushed their products even more.
Like, is there any shift amongst yourself and your colleagues
in holding these companies accountable?
Absolutely. So we're working on legislation
that would limit company's abilities to do this.
So it is important to remember the entire idea
of a corporation is to, in fact, protect the owners
-from being fully liable for things that go wrong. -Mm-hmm.
And the idea is, if we were all on the hook
for everything we did wrong, we would not take risks.
We would not invent new products.
We would not develop new things.
So that principle is good,
but it has to have bounds and limits.
And what we're seeing with the Sacklers,
what we're seeing with Johnson & Johnson
is companies use very...
basically exploit a combination of state and federal law
to get off the hook.
The whole point of bankruptcy is to help companies
or people who cannot pay.
Johnson & Johnson can pay.
This is a company with $440 billion dollars.
It is perfectly capable of paying for the harms it caused.
One of the more disturbing, um, facts
from the story is the fact that
Johnson & Johnson specifically targeted Black women
to use the products, even though they knew
that they were harmful.
And they knew that, I think, 60% of their customer base
of their talc powder was specifically Black women.
It's... It... I think
it definitely would erode the trust
that people have in these... in these companies.
It erodes their trust
in whether or not they can be held accountable.
And there's... there's no denying,
I mean, even now with vaccines,
a lot of people in the Black community are saying,
"We don't trust any of these pharmaceutical companies.
"We don't trust America's medicine
and its history with us as Black people."
And now, there's gonna be be some people who say,
"Well, then, why should I get a Johnson & Johnson vaccine?
How can I trust that?"
Are you prepared for, you know, what this means?
Have you thought about how the fallout of Johnson & Johnson
could affect, I think, a larger health messaging?
I think that is a really interesting point.
I do want to observe one really important difference
about vaccines.
Exactly because we have in our country
let bad actors who have put products
into the product stream that have hurt people
-Mm-hmm. -get off the hook,
we've taken a different approach for vaccines.
So anyone who believes that they were harmed by a vaccine,
doesn't have to look to the manufacturer.
You can go directly to a vaccine fund that already exists.
Because we're not going to make people.
We want people to take vaccines,
and we want to reassure them that there will be damages,
there'll be help-- if they think they are harmed,
there is a place to report that and to get the help
that they deserve and the justice that they may need.
And so we have actually, I think on vaccines,
corrected this injustice.
The problem is, we haven't done it
for all these other products,
-Mm. -including, as you mentioned,
opioids, including Johnson & Johnson and the baby powder,
and other kinds of dangerous products in the marketplace.
And it's true, by the way, for things like safety seats,
um, baby seats and car seats, another issue I've worked on,
tainted baby food, baby formula.
This is a chronic problem where companies put things
in the marketplace, they know they are dangerous,
and then they use corporate law to try to deny justice
to those that they hurt.
Before I let you go, I would be remiss if I did not talk to you
about what the whole country is waiting to see, um,
a move on, and that is the Build Back Better Plan.
Many people are frustrated, understandably,
at the fact that they voted for Democrats,
the Democrats are now in power--
they want to see something happen.
They want to see a change in their health care,
you know, whether it's the dental and vision.
They want to see a change in college
and the price that people pay.
They want to see changes in the things
that Democrats promised them they would see changes in.
And yet now it feels like not only is nothing happening,
but the promise list is slowly being whittled down
to a very small group of things.
I mean, the last I saw, it's, you know,
now the richest people would be getting tax cuts.
What is your message to the American public,
and what is your message to your colleagues
who may be holding up the system, as you see the results,
I mean, in Virginia, speaking for themselves?
We are definitely as close as we have ever been
to moving this bill.
I just heard my colleague that was in a meeting,
and we were all like, "Let's go vote on it right now."
I think we are ready to do it.
And I want to say, there are times in this process
where we've tried to get things done,
and we haven't gotten all of them.
But I have to be honest.
I never thought, as a working mom,
as a single parent in this country,
that I would ever see my government understand
how hard it is to afford child care,
Would ever understand how important it is
to give little kids, preschoolers,
toddlers, that early childhood education they need.
I never thought, we would finally stand up
to big oil companies and fossil fuel companies
and protect our planet,
and we are actually going to do those things in this bill.
-Mm. -And I will tell you, everybody understands
that this bill is the beginning of delivering
on the president's promises-- it is not the end.
And so I feel very, very good
that we are going to pass these programs.
They are going to improve people's lives.
So we have to keep on delivering for Americans,
and we appreciate their patience as we get this done.
Well, Representative Porter, thank you so much
for taking the time, and hopefully we'll see you
-back on the show again soon. -Thank you so much.