JUDY WOODRUFF: As we have been reporting, the president will speak about Ukraine tonight.
And his speech comes as Congress considers approving billions of dollars
in additional aid for that country, which is under attack from Russia.
Senator John Thune is the second highest ranking
Republican in the Senate. And I spoke with him moments ago.
Senator Thune, thank you so much for joining us.
As you know, Ukraine has moved to the top of the agenda in time for this State of the
Union. What is your assessment of how President Biden has handled Ukraine and Russia so far?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): I think, at the beginning, Judy, they were reactive.
I think it took them a little bit of time.
I don't think -- everybody was sort of trying to assess and calibrate what Russia may or may
not do. But I think now they're doing the right things. You know, I think the economic sanctions
and getting the alliance together behind those -- I mean, the way to make the sanctions effective
is to make sure we are unified in implementing them. And I think the administration has done a
nice job of getting the Germans and the French and all our NATO allies involved and together on that.
And I think they're doing the right thing in terms of providing lethal aid. We were
briefed last night by all the relevant players. And coming out of that, I felt like
the administration clearly understands what's at stake and is doing everything they can
to make sure that the Ukrainians can defend themselves against this sort
of murderous thug that is coming in and invading their sovereign country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: At the same time, the Russians don't seem to be deterred. They have been slowed,
but I don't think very many people think they are not going to keep pushing forward.
What more do you believe the West, that the United States can do to help the Ukrainian?
SEN. JOHN THUNE: I think that we are doing most
of what we can -- there are a few things we could do additionally.
I think that the energy sanctions, Putin -- obviously, their entire economy revolves around
energy. Some people have described it as a gas station masquerading as a country. So if we were
collectively to do that, I think that could be a very punishing blow, again, to their economy.
But you have already seen the ruble crash as a result of some of these sanctions. I
think the people of Russia are going to become very frustrated with what's happening there.
That -- you're right. That won't deter him. I think, for him, this is all now about
saving face, and he's a desperate man. He could do desperate things.
And I think we have to be prepared for the worst. But we're doing everything we can in terms of
arming the Ukrainians, giving them intelligence capabilities, training, lethal aid, all those
things that they need. And I'm hoping that it will be costly enough for Putin, as he tries to move
into the interior of the country, that he will make a calculation that this is a really bad idea.
And I think the other thing that's starting to take effect is, surprisingly, when you get things
that haven't happened in decades -- Switzerland is coming off the sidelines. The Russian people
are rising up against their leader. And I think that sort of thing is going to be
very, very determinative in ultimately whether or not Putin can continue this.
You're right. I think he's moving and he can apply as much force as is necessary to
get there. But I think it's going to be very costly, both in form of casualties
and to the Russian people when it comes to the economic effect these sanctions are having.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator, some members of your party, however, have been praising Vladimir Putin,
in particular, former President Trump. He has called him a genius,
savvy. Just over the weekend, he doubled down. He called him smart,
and he's been calling -- he said, while our leaders, American leaders, are dumb.
What do you make -- do you agree with his assessment?
SEN. JOHN THUNE: I think that Vladimir Putin is now exposed and all the world can see.
This is a guy -- this is a -- a power grab on his part.
He is a thug. He is a criminal. He has to be stopped. And I -- that's -- I think that's
going to be the view of not only a huge majority of Americans, but a huge majority of the world,
which is why everybody is now stepping up and providing assistance. It's really remarkable
to see and encouraging, frankly, to see the number of countries around the world
that are stepping into this equation and doing everything they can to help assist.
But, no, but Vladimir Putin clearly is a menace to the world. And it's important that the world
stop him. And this is the place to do it. And I'm glad that everybody is stepping up the task.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you're saying former President Trump is wrong in that assessment?
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Well, I don't -- former presidents can have their own opinions.
But I can tell you what everybody else can see clearly. And that is that this is a man
who is deluded and, frankly, like I said, I think a very desperate person, but someone who
has no qualms about murders, murdering innocent people and children. And he has to be stopped.
And there's -- there will be no question about that. There is no question about that. And
I -- anybody who suggests otherwise, I think, is not watching what's unfolding in front of them.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Last question, Senator, back to the State of the Union.
What should President Biden say tonight is the state of the union right now?
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Well, I think, when you get back home -- I mean, he's going to talk a lot
about Ukraine. And, obviously, there's going to be a high level of interest in the chamber
about that subject and what steps we can work together with them on, as members of Congress.
But I think, on the domestic agenda, Judy, he's got -- he got a lot of work to do. Inflation's at
a 40-year high. His approval ratings are in the tank. And the border is a mess. There are a lot
of crime issues in our cities, safety issues that people are concerned with, and an energy crisis.
I mean, gasoline prices are already going through the roof. And this situation abroad
is not going to help with that. So he's got a case I think he needs to make about how
he's going to conduct himself differently this next year than he has the past year.
I think the last year has been -- it's been very partisan. It has been sort of a left-wing agenda,
with a very narrow majority in the House and Senate. And I think, in the second
year of his term, he could pivot to and look at how he can work together to accomplish things
in a constructive way to try and solve some of these problems for the American people.
But, clearly, the formula that they have been using certainly hasn't worked,
at least as it pertains to the runaway inflation that we're
seeing and some of the other adverse economic impacts of his policies.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator John Thune, the second-ranking Republican in the Senate,
we're going to leave it there. Thank you very much.
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Thanks, Judy. Nice to be with you.