How do you feel about the proper
use of a comma? Does a semi colon
in the wrong place set you off?
Well, you're not alone.
self-proclaimed grammar nerd Ellen
Jovin set up her first grammar table
outside her Manhattan apartment and
invited people to stop with questions.
She took the show on the road
and wrote rebel with a clause,
tails and tips from a roving grammarian.
She joins me now. I loved this book.
Thank you, Susie. Wow.
Who knew grabber could be fun?
Well, you did 'cause the shirt.
OK, so first of all.
You're never looking at
my old college papers,
but can you clear something up?
I say there's two spaces after a period.
My kids say no.
I'm gonna go with your kids.
Oh my gosh. But you know what?
It's not a big deal.
No. If it fills your
heart with joy, I think you should continue.
But just don't make them do 2 spaces.
OK? I still do that. Automatic.
I mean, even on Twitter.
And then I save so much time.
You do? Yes, I really do.
Ohh, can't get that brain around.
OK, so tell me about the grammar table.
Why did you start that?
I was talking
about language all the time anyway.
I've been in professional word nerd my
entire life and I was on the computer
all the time and I got sick of it.
You know, all those Facebook groups.
You can talk about language,
people everywhere. And so I said,
OK, I need to get this out on the
street instead and see more people.
So you took your table there you are
in Manhattan and you had this sign
that had all these things you could do,
even vent questions you could ask.
And what happened?
People wanted to talk about grammar. Yeah,
I just, I walked out there.
I felt a little self-conscious, not
gonna lie about that. I put up the
sign and someone came up right
away and started talking to me,
and it just continued from there.
OK, so you took the show on
the road. 47 states so far,
actually, in between between
our original conversations.
And now there have been two more.
Oh, so you have one state left.
That's right. Wow.
Which one? We shouldn't tell.
Well, we could tell.
OK. It's Hawaii. Hawaii.
It's going to be hard.
To do it the most most asked
question that you get about grammar.
Definitely the Oxford comma.
There's no the comma before
the end at the end of the list.
There's no contest for top question. Wow.
That's interesting how
it sets people off. Yeah.
And I think maybe it's partly because
it has a name so it's easy to refer to.
And people like their details.
You know, they want their coffee
the same way in the morning.
They want their comma in the same place.
They want to come in the same place.
So you were in Riverfront Park in
Spokane when you came to our state.
What was on their mind?
I don't know if this was coincidence,
but there were quite a few
adverb discussions that.
So, so I I remember a woman with
her husband and small and children.
She was concerned about the lack
of LY on the end of adverbs.
You know, like when people say
I need to do that real quick,
she wanted there to be an LY on the end
really quickly, that kind of thing. Yeah.
And then I also I learned something that day.
I learned something on the
streets of Washington. Yep.
It was the pronunciation of PAST i.e.
S There are two versions, 2.
Pronunciations, which I did not realize.
Pasties for the little things that you put,
you know where.
Yeah.
And then pasties for the for the
yeah food, the food. But I didn't know
that because I only read it in books.
I never discussed them and
I didn't really eat them,
so I always just said them as
painful. Learned that I learned in
Washington. I did. So. Thank you.
Go Washington. Washington. Wow.
So you make a point that there is a lot
of elitism associated with grammar and
correcting people and things like that.
Is it fair? That that kind of charge.
And how do we make it more accessible?
A lot of times that people remember
the saying the things that are
told not to do these rules,
people telling them they're wrong.
Often those rules are not actually correct,
first of all. So sometimes there's
mythology that's been passed on.
Grammar for me is a huge sprawling,
varied universe of language that we
use in all different kinds of ways.
And it should be something
that's full of joy and.
Humor and fun.
Of course, you need to know some
basic conventions for formal writing,
but there's a lot more variety than people
think. And one point I love that you made
in the book is stop correcting people.
Because I bet you ran into that a
lot as people wanted to be right,
like me with my right stop correcting people.
Unless it's your family or I I think that
it's not gracious socially to do it.
But also so often the people who
are really bent on correcting people
really are doing, they're often wrong.
Like the big one don't end
with a preposition. You know,
it's much more natural to say that's
the book I was telling you about then.
That's the book about which
I was telling you.
And so they can just knock that off.
I love that thing.
This is this is such a fun read,
especially when you go to
all the different states.
So thank you for that.
I still disagree about the whole thing.
Whatever. Ellen will be checking your
grammar tonight at town Hall Seattle.
It starts at 7:30 and you can check
out our website For more information.