LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK, FOLKS.
MY NEXT GUEST IS A POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND HOST OF MSNBC'S
"THE LAST WORD." PLEASE WELCOME LAWRENCE O'DONNELL.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: THANKS FOR BEING BACK.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> Stephen: HOW YOU BEEN?
UH, UNDER PRESSURE.
>> Stephen: UNDER PRESSURE?
YEAH.
>> Stephen: WHY ARE YOU UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE?
>> BECAUSE WE'RE COVERING THE MOST EXTREMELY STRANGE
PRESIDENCY IN HISTORY.
>> Stephen: THAT'S TRUE, VERY STRANGE.
>> AND, UH -- AND WE DO IT LIVE AT 10:00 ON MY SHOW, AND WHAT
THAT MEANS IS WE USED TO BE ABLE TO START WRITING THIS SHOW AT
3:00.
>> Stephen: YEAH, YEAH.
>. AND NOW YOU START WRITING IT ABOUT 5 MINUTES TO 10:00 BECAUSE
THE TWEETS ARE COMING IN LIKE CRAZY.
>> Stephen: AND CHANGE THE NEWS CYCLE COMPLETELY.
>> NOT TO MENTION THE INDICTMENTS THAT COME IN.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
O WE'RE GETTING SHAKEN UP ALL THE TIME.
>> Stephen: I KIND OF LIKE HAT THE PRESIDENT IS IN ASIA 1 HOURS
AHEAD FOR THE NEXT, LIKE, WEEK AND A HALF BECAUSE, WHEN WE'RE
WRITING OUR SHOW, HE'S ASLEEP.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: HE CAN'T CHANGE THE NEWS CYCLE BECAUSE WE TAPE
AROUND 5:30 IN THE EVENING.
>> YOU KNOW HOW LITTLE HE SLEEPS.
HE'S A SERIOUS INSOMNIAC SO I IMAGINE ON THIS TRIP YOU CAN'T
RELY ON THAT.
>> Stephen: THEY MUST GIVE HIM A LITTLE SOMETHING.
>> YOU THINK SO?
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?
>> Stephen: YOU CAN'T GIVE A SLEEPING PILLOW THE PRESIDENT?
YOU WOULD KNOW.
>> I WOULD NOT KNOW.
>> Stephen: WHY WOULDN'T YOU KNOW?
YOU WROTE ON WEST WING.
>> THAT'S CORRECT, I DID.
AND WE NEVER -- LET'S SEE, 154 EPISODES, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW
MANY SLEEPING PILL EPISODES THERE WERE.
I DON'T REMEMBER MARTIN -- I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE HE DID.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: SO THAT WAS A
FANTASY, EVEN IN ITS DAY, IT WAS LIKE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT FANTASY
PORN.
( LAUGHTER ) BUT THERE WERE CRAZY STORY LINES
IN THAT.
WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU GUYS WROTE THAT WAS ANYTHING AS CRAZY
AS THE STORY LINES WE'RE GETTING NOW?
>> OH, EVERY SINGLE THING THAT'S HAPPENED PROBABLY IN THE LAST
TWO YEARS OF OUR POLITICS, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SITTING IN THE
WEST WING SAYING, NO, NO, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN.
I WOULD HAVE SHOT DOWN EVERY -- YOU KNOW, REALITY SHOW GUY RUNS
FOR PRESIDENT.
I GO, NO, NO, IT CAN'T HAPPEN!
>> Stephen: HE WINS!
THAT DESTROYS DRAMA.
FICTIONAL TELEVISION DRAMA ABOUT A WHITE HOUSE IS NOW DESTROYED
BECAUSE THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO GRAVITY TO IT.
>> Stephen: LAWRENCE, PRETTY GOOD FOR COMEDY, THOUGH.
>> IT'S VERY GOOD FOR COMEDY.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) NOT FAIR.
>> Stephen: SORRY.
NOT FAIR.
>> Stephen: YOU HAVE A BADGE OF HONOR, IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS,
IN THAT YOU WERE ONE OF THE FIRST TV POLITICAL PUNDITS, IF
YOU DON'T MIND THAT TERM, TO BE ATTACKED BY THE PRESIDENT IN
2015.
"I HEAR THAT DOPEY PUNDIT LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, ONE OF THE
DUMBER PEOPLE ON TELEVISION, IS ABOUT TO LOSE HIS SHOW.
NO RATINGS, TOO BAD."
AND THEN EVEN BETTER "I HEARD SINCE HIS SHOW SUN WATCHABLE
THAT LAWRENCE MADE MANY FALSE STATEMENTS ABOUT ME, MAYBE I
SHOULD SUE HIM?" >> THAT'S MY SPACE IN TWITTER
HISTORY.
I'M THE FIRST PERSON, I THINK THE ONLY TV PERSON HE THREATENED
TO SUE ON TWITTER.
>> Stephen: REALLY?
YEAH.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: DID HE SUE YOU?
HE DIDN'T SUE ME.
HE SAVED ALL THE LAWYERS FEES TO SUE BILL MAHR, AND THE YOUNG
THROUGH IT OUT AND SAID IT WAS SILLY.
I BEGGED HIM TO SUE ME AFTER THAT.
>> Stephen: I'M NEXT.
HE WON'T EVEN TWEET ABOUT ME ( APPLAUSE )
>> THAT'S FASCINATING HE WON'T TWEET ABOUT YOU.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET HIM TO TWEET ABOUT YOU?
YOU HAVEN'T GONE FAR ENOUGH.
>> Stephen: SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT HIM?
>> I GUESS SO.
THAT WOULD DO IT.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ALL RIGHT, NOW WE'VE GOT A NEW
BOOK HERE, IT'S CALLED "PLAYING WITH FIRE" ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN OF
1968.
WHAT TODAY CAN WE LEARN ABOUT THE TRANSFORMATION OF OUR
POLITICS?
ANYTHING WE CAN LEARN AND TODAY'S POLITICS?
>> WE CAN SEE ALL OF THE PRECEDENTS THAT OCCURRED IN 1968
WHICH IS KIND OF WHERE OUR MODERN POLITICS BEGAN FOR WHAT
WE JUST SAW IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN.
GEORGE WALLACE'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HE WAS THE
SEGREGATIONIST ALABAMA GOVERNOR RUNNING AS ABINDEPENDENT IN
1968, HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER TOLD ME LAST YEAR WHEN HE HEARD TRUMP
SPEAK AS A CANDIDATE, HE WAS HEARING GEORGE WALLACE.
IT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING.
GEORGE WALLACE WAS THE VERY FIRST CANDIDATE WHO USED THE
PROTESTERS IN HIS AUDIENCE TO SHOW HOW TOUGH HE IS.
HE WOULD YELL RIGHT BACK AT THEM AND FIGHT WITH THEM, AND THE
SECOND ONE TO DO THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP.
NO ONE IN BETWEEN THOUGHT FIGHTING WITH THE PROTESTERS IN
THE AUDIENCE WAS A GOOD WAY TO PRESENT HIMSELF.
>> Stephen: NOW, YOU SAY IN THE FIRST SENTENCE, YOU TALK
ABOUT ROGER AILES MEETING RICHARD NIXON IN 1968.
WHY START THERE?
>> BECAUSE ROGER AILES MET RICHARD NIXON IN A SHOW LIKE
THIS IN A MAKEUP CHAIR WHEN RICHARD NIXON WAS BEGINNING HIS
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
NIXON LOVES THIS GUY AILES WHO SEEMS TO KNOW ABOUT TV, PULLS
HIM INTO HIS CAMPAIGN OUT OF SHOW BUSINESS INTO POLITICS.
AILES GETS NIXON ELECTED, GETS REAGAN ELECTED, GEORGE H.W. BUSH
GET ELECTED, THEN CREATES FOX NEWS.
IF RICHARD NIXON HAD NOT MET ROGER AILES IN THAT MIKE DOUGLAS
MAKEUP CHAIR, WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES WOULD BE TODAY BECAUSE ROGER AILES CREATED THIS
AMAZINGLY EFFECTIVE REPUBLICAN TELEVISION NEWS STATION CALLED
FOX NEWS WHICH SUPPORTED TRUMP ALL THE WAY AND WITHOUT THAT I
DON'T BELIEVE DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE MADE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
OUTCOME GO HIS WAY.
>> Stephen: AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER SENTENCES AFTER THAT.
( LAUGHTER ) >> THERE ARE.
THERE IS A LOT.
>> STEPHEN: "PLAYING WITH FIRE" IS OUT TOMORROW.
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, EVERYBODY.