Amna: New York's highest court
has overturned Harvey
Weinstein's 2020 rape
conviction, a stunning reversal
in the landmark case of the
#metoo movement.
In a 4-3 decision, the court
of appeals said -- did not
include the witness's
allegations in the charges
precluded Weinstein from having
a fair trial.
Weinstein's lawyers commended
the court earlier today for what
they called a tremendous victory
for criminal defendants.
>> There are some people who are
very unpopular in our society.
But we still have to apply the
law fairly to them.
And in this courthouse behind us
at that trial, the law was not
applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein.
Amna: Weinstein is currently
being held in an upstate new
York prison.
For more on what this reversal
means for him, and why the case
unfolded as it did, I'm joined
by Jodi Kantor, New York Times
investigative reporter who broke
the story of Mr. Weinstein's sex
crimes.
Jodi, you and your colleague of
course broke that story back in
2017.
No one has followed it more
closely.
Did today's decision surprise
you?
Jodi: No.
This has been brewing for a long
time.
From the start Megan and I were
never really sure how Harvey
Weinstein would be treated by
the criminal justice system.
Because when we think of the
allegations against him, there
are so many.
Those women could fill an entire
courtroom by themselves.
But a lot of them were not
eligible to stand at the center
of a New York trial.
A lot of the allegations were
about sexual harassment, which
is not a crime, or they passed
the statute of limitations, or
they did not take place in new
York.
So the New York trial was only
about two women, both of whom
had consensual sex with
Weinstein in addition to the
very upsetting acts they
describe.
That could be very messy for
juries.
So prosecutors brought in
additional witnesses to bolster
their case.
But the complaint against them
was always the classic criminal
law complaint saying the facts
presented in that courtroom need
to be relevant to the charges in
the trial.
And that, in fact, is the basis
on which the conviction was
overturned.
Amna: After your initial
reporting more than 100 women
came forward with allegations of
sexual assault or harassment by
Weinstein.
Today one of those survivors,
Ashley Judd, reacted to the
news.
>> This today is an act of
institutional betrayal.
And our institutions betray
survivors of male sexual
violence.
I stand shoulder to shoulder
with women who have bloody
knees, because male sexual
violence may knock us down, but
we get right back up.
Amna: Have you heard this
similar sentiment from other
survivors?
Jodi: I called Ashley today when
I first heard the news and I was
actually the one to share it
with her.
And she found it disappointing
and upsetting but she was also
unwavering.
And she said, we know what
really happened.
And yes, I have heard similar
sentiments from Weinstein's
alleged victims today.
And I think a special upset for
the women who stood up and went
through the difficulty of a
criminal trial and provided that
extra testimony which the court
has now wiped away.
But I should tell you, some of
the strongest objections were
from some of the appellate
judges per this was a very split
of judges who had a very painful
debate.
The majority only won by one
vote.
And some of the judges who were
in the minority basically
protested and said what are you
doing?
You are naive, you are
disregarding the process we have
made in learning how to process
sex crimes.
Amna: What does this mean for
Weinstein himself?
He is still imprisoned in
upstate New York.
What do we know about his health
and his future based on this
decision?
Jodi: Well, he is not a free
man.
Because remember he was also
convicted in Los Angeles.
So soon he is going to be moved
to California to start serving
out that sentence.
Meanwhile, that conviction is
being appealed by his lawyers
month on the same basis that the
New York case was overturned.
They are going to complain about
these additional witnesses.
Whether it will matter, I don't
know California law is a little
clearer and firmer on the use of
those witnesses.
I should tell you the lawyer in
that case is the same attorney
was able to get Bill Cosby's
conviction thrown out.
Amna: In New York the da's
office has said they will try to
retry the case.
What does the timeline ahead
look like for that?
Jodi: It is confusing and it is
a tough decision I think for
them.
Because the case is so
culturally important and means
so much to so many people that
to let it stand here will be
very unsatisfying.
But to go back to the beginning,
do this again and get the women
to tell those painful stories in
court, I am not sure it is going
to be possible.
That is New York Times
investigative reporter Jodi
Kantor, who broke the story of
Harvey Weinstein's sex crimes
back in 2017.
Jodi, thanks for joining us
today.
We appreciate it.
Jodi: Thank you.
♪♪