Thank you for having me.
So there's a bunch of pieces that I actually want to to to
talk about. But let's start with the the vaccinations there
to sort of like dynamics that are happening right now in this
country when we talk about vaccinations one is that we are
on the verge of what appears to be
okay from the FDA for an emergency authorization of the
Pfizer vaccine for children between the ages of 1612.
It's already between the 1816 Pfizer is the only vaccination
that is authorized at this point for anybody under the age
of 18. The others are in trials and you can you can help us on
that and then the other sort of dynamic is that
the demand for shots.
At least in the context of the adult population is waning.
Let's take them separately or both because they're
interrelated in terms of of of the relevance of the former is
is in some ways
more so because of the ladder.
>> Yeah, I would say so you know I think this is pretty
much unexpected course that we would have the highest demand.
>> Here in the early people are really eager to.
>> Get in who want to get it right away. Came out first and
the people who are kind of on the fence.
>> You know we'll get it, you can't.
>> Can't skip work to get it or 6 stream we even have some
hesitation getting into that group now and so there's a lot
of hope that these are people who are just kind of.
>> You know thinking about it. But will eventually do it.
>> And that's a very different future from if those people are
actually you quite against or if we start to open up these
restrictions, we see cases going down and that actually
makes people feel feel less motivated like they can be you
know free loader who does and doesn't even take the time to
go get a shot.
>> How how much do we know about this about.
>> The broad cohort of people who have not been vaccinated
and are adults because it seems to me that there is and I don't
have a sense necessarily the numbers but it seems to me
there is the
I'm never going to take a vaccine.
>> There is. There is the I'm.
>> Riz reluctant and then there are some I feel like and I
think this is a fairly large number who either
can't get it or it 6 so difficult for them to get it
that they have it and I'm speaking of people who can't
afford to take the time off from work who don't have access
to. The did the distribution mechanisms that we have
thinking people living in poor or maybe in more rural areas
around the country. I mean we're we're definitely seeing a
demographic right there's some demographic cohorts here.
What what is your sense of those distinctions and then we
can talk about maybe what we need to do if there's anything
that we do need to do that to to get to get shots in their
arms.
>> And from my experience talking to patients for him
year-over-year about flu shots. It's rare that someone says
you know there's there's just no circumstances under which I
would ever consider.
>> Doing this and they're certainly there are certainly
those people break their swing.
>> You're not going to move the needle so I don't think there's
a lot of point in targeting. Efforts at the at that group,
but of course, anybody's mind to be changing a thing give up
if you have friends or family fun at camp, but I think at a
public health level there's going to be a lot more utility
in focusing on people who are kind of on the fence or just
been you know the busy lives.
This is not their top priority because they have not been that
affected by the pandemic are think themselves to be a
relatively low-risk in believed everyone around them is getting
vaccinated for whatever reason if not the top of their
priority list if there were someone who you know came and
knocked on their door and offered a vaccine and there
were ice cream truck going around or was available to
check out of their grocery store and someone was like
please do it. Also you'll get 20 coupon for next time you
come shop here they roll up their sleeve.
And so that's where I think
you know the media public health community. Government
needs to be focusing right now once we've exhausted all those
measures where we've really you really want to get down to the
area where the only people who aren't vaccinated are the ones
who are actively waving you off and saying no it's not you
know, you know stop offering a vaccine. I don't want free
doughnuts. I don't want a free upgrade to for his class and
I'm like whatever perks people get they're actively just
saying no no I definitely don't and they said that 10 times.
>> Yes, so what I mean what the are you aware of
of moves in that regard. I mean you know you're throwing
>> I mean is half in jest right. I mean it's not I mean
out.
like those measure you're talking about most of them
sound actually pretty reasonable but I'm not aware,
you know when does the government start doing this
like when does. You have the government doing bringing out
the carrots. I think there is a fear in the Biden
administration that they don't want to really be the ones
wielding the stacks because of how rise this issue has become.
But when do what what do the carrots what would be the
carrots and and then who brings out the sticks in this
scenario. And you know of any actual concrete proposals that
are out there in the public health community or in the
governmental circles that would implemented that that these
things are being thrown around.
>> So it's interesting in other countries you might have
federal policies. I think be at the federal level it would be a
normal even in normal times, but especially during
device in time to impose a heavy penalty what we do is we
limit access to public services place places like schools.
You can't work in a hospital. If you're not vaccinated you
know apart from some some big medical exemption vaccination
school has always been a hot but
issue for a lot of parents and that's it's handled at the
state level and there are parents who are willing to home
school their kids or take them into a private school that
might have
higher tolerance for exemptions.
And there will be think policies like that where they
knew they might say OK but we you know you can get coming to
our school system a messy they have proof of vaccination but
more likely we go about this the American dream which is
sort of the Krispy Kreme model where there enough that with
their private corporations, either your employer
is either requiring it or strong incentivizing and that
could be a small thing like you get you get a paid afternoon
off. And that could be in the business is interested because
they don't want you missing 2 weeks of work when you come
down with COVID-19 next winter. So so there's that and then
there are ways that this could be a good you know.
If if the Mets want to get their fans back in the stands
at full capacity, you know give them a free vaccine at the
gate, he given you know that there are all kinds of reasons
this is in the interest of businesses and that's probably
the most American approach is to have just enough small
incentives come that we don't have to have.
>> We should say the federal government in my understanding
has in the last relief package. I believe
a tax credit for businesses that give. People the day off.
I think the day after the shot or one of those 2 days you get
a tax credit for or for paying your employee for that day so
we already have like at least a federal incentive and I want to
I want to just put a
flag, what you said about covid catching covid next winter that
is something that we're going to talk about in a bit. But
let's talk about the other half of it, which is the urgency in
getting more adults vaccinated or I should say the the fact
that we've reached sort of like the low hanging fruit when it
comes to adults has made the importance of vaccinating
children.
Beyond the fact that children can catch covid there is
increasing data suggesting that they are that they're suffering
from long. Long haul covid not necessarily the numbers that
like a 50 year-old would but but one that is significant.
What what do you say to people who are let's say nervous about
vaccinating their children right like I mean, I know.
>> Personally for me I was like well the mrna I'll get the mrna
I'm in my 50's, you know it was what happens to me in 25 years.
It's not as a dramatic, you know my I've developed.
>> As much as I'm going to develop, I'm just degrading at
this point in my trajectory.
>> But my 15 year-old daughter.
>> We will this mrna is particularly that vaccine which