MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK
CHAUVIN CONTINUED PRESENTING ITS
CASE TODAY, PUTTING ON THE STAND
A FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER
FOR THE STATE OF MARYLAND, IN
STARK CONTRAST FROM THE MEDICAL
WITNESSES WE HEARD FROM THE
PROSECUTION.
THE DOCTOR TESTIFIED THAT THE
CAUSE OF GEORGE FLOYDS DEATH PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING OTHER
PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING OTHER
THAN DEREK CHAUVIN, EVEN CARBON
MONOXIDE POISONING, AN EXHAUST
PIPE IS NOW ON TRIAL.
HIS ENTIRE TESTIMONY FRANKLY
IMPLODED ONCE THE PROSECUTOR
PICKED IT APART STARTING WITH
DEBUNKING THE THEORY THAT FLOYD
DIED IN PART TO VEHICLE FUMES.
>> DO YOU KNOW IF IN FACT THE
CAR WAS ON OR NOT?
YOU DIDNT SEE ANY INFORMATION,
DATA FROM ANYBODY WHO SAYS I
EITHER TURNED THE CAR ON OR IM
THE ONE WHO TURNED IT OFF.
YOU DIDNT SEE EITHER ONE, DID
YOU?
>> CORRECT.
>> FOULER WHO HAD RULED OUT
ASPHYXIA THEN ADMITTED TO
BLACKWELL THAT BRUISES ARE
RARELY EVEN A THING WITH THIS
TYPE OF DEATH.
>> DO YOU AGREE, DR. FOULER,
THAT THE MAJORITY OF CASES WHERE
SOMEBODY DIES OF ASPHYXIA ARE
VERY SUBTLE AND NO
MANIFESTATIONS ARE VISIBLE AT
ALL?
>> THAT IS CORRECT, DEPENDING ON
THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
>> THE PROSECUTORS NULLIFIED THE
STUDIES FOULER HAD CITED SHOWING
THAT RESTRAINT IN A PRONE
POSITION DOES NOT CAUSE
DIFFICULTY BREATHING.
>> IS IT TRUE, DR. FOULER, THAT
NONE OF THE PRONE RESTRAINT
STUDIES THAT YOU REFERRED TO
ACTUALLY STUDIED SUBJECTS WHO
HAD SOMEONES KNEE ON THEIR NECK
IN THE PRONE POSITION?
IS THAT TRUE?
>> THAT IS TRUE.
>> NONE OF THE STUDIES WENT FOR
AS LONG AS 9 MINUTES AND 29
SECONDS, IS THAT TRUE?
>> THAT IS TRUE.
>> THAT, MY FRIENDS, THAT IS HOW
YOU TEAR DOWN A DEFENSE WITNESS,
BY GETTING HIM TO AGREE WITH THE
PROSECUTION.
JOINING ME NOW IS PHILLIP ATIBA
GOFF AND MARY MORIARTY, FORMER
CHIEF PUBLIC DEFENDER OF
HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA.
IT WAS PRETTY MUCH A CLINIC THAT
THE PROSECUTOR PUT ON IN
DISMANTLING THIS WITNESS.
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT EXCHANGE TODAY?
EXCHANGE TODAY?
>> IT WAS A REALLY EFFECTIVE
CROSS-EXAMINATION, I THOUGHT AT
THE BEGINNING, OKAY, THAT SEEMS
IMPLAUSIBLE IM GLAD THAT HES
TAKING THAT POSITION.
HE WAS RENDERING OPINIONS ON
CARDIOLOGY, PULMONOLOGY,
TOXICOLOGY AND MR. BLACKWELL GOT
HIM TO ADMIT THAT HE DOESNT
HAVE EXPERTISE IN ANY OF THOSE
AREAS.
IF YOU RECALL, THE STATE HAS
CALLED A CARDIOLOGIST, A
PULMOOLOGIST AND TOXOLOGIST AND
GOT HIM TO ADMIT HE WOULD DEFER
TO THE OPINIONS OF A
PULMONOLOGIST A NUMBER OF TIMES.
IT WAS AN EFFECTIVE
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
>> I SAID ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
YOU WANT TO DO IS KNOW WHO
YOURE TALKING ABOUT.
THIS GENTLEMEN WHO -- HE
EMBARRASSED HIMSELF TODAY.
HES A FORMER MARYLAND OFFICIAL.
HE WAS HERE IN MARYLAND.
HE CLEARED -- HE IS SOMEBODY WHO
HAD CLEARED POLICE IN A PREVIOUS
POLICE KILLING.
HE CLEARED POLICE IN THE DEATH
OF A MAN CALLED ANTON BLACK.
HE DIED AFTER THREE MARYLAND
POLICE OFFICERS WERE ON TOP OF
HIS BODY FOR NEARLY SIX MINUTES.
THEY CONTINUED PRESSING DOWN ON
HIM FOR MANY MINUTES AFTER HE
WAS HANDCUFFED.
FOULERS AUTOPSY RULED THE DEATH
AN ACCIDENT AND SAID THERE WERE
NO SIGNS THAT THE POLICE DID
ANYTHING WRONG.
SO HES BASICALLY MOSTLY AN
EXPERT IN SAYING POLICE DID
NOTHING WRONG.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT CHOICE OF
SOMEBODY TO TESTIFY FOR THE
DEFENSE, PHILLIP?
>> WELL, WHAT WE SAW ALL OF LAST
WEEK WAS EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY
WHO COULD LINE UP AND GET A SPOT
FOR THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE
DEPARTMENT SAYING, YEAH, THAT
WAS WRONG.
ITS OUT OF POLICY.
THERES NO BEST PRACTICES THAT
SAYS ITS OKAY.
KNEELING ON SOMEBODYS TRACHEA
UNTIL THEY DIE IS SOMETHING WE
DONT LIKE TO DO.
SO IM FRANKLY IMPRESS THAT HAD
THE DEFENSE WAS ABLE TO GET
ANYBODY WITH ANY KIND OF DEGREE
TO COME FORWARD AND SAY MAYBE
THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE.
I WANT TO BE CLEAR.
IF THEY LEFT HIM UP ON THE
STAND, HE MIGHT WELL HAVE SAID,
THERES NO EVIDENCE THAT ALIENS
DIDNT KILL HIM.
>> RIGHT.
>> SO -- YEAH.
THIS IS A PERSON WHO NO LONGER
HAS THAT POSITION, NO LONGER
REQUIRES -- AND THATS WHAT
YOURE GOING TO NEED TO
CONTRADICT EVERYTHING WE SAW.
SO YOURE GOING TO NEED A
FABULOUS TO COME IN AND PROVIDE
ANYTHING LIKE A SHRED OF A
CREDIBLE STORY IN THE OTHER
DIRECTION.
IF YOURE EVEN REMOTELY
PREPARED, AS THE PROSECUTION WAS
IN THIS CASE, THATS GOING TO
FALL APART ALMOST INSTANTLY.
YOU GOT TO BE GLAD ABOUT THAT
AND ALSO THIS CASE ON ONE TRIAL,
RIGHT, ON ONE OFFICER, ITS SO
FAR SHORT OF WHAT WERE SEEING
PROTESTORS TALK ABOUT IN THE
STREETS OF MINNEAPOLIS TODAY.
>> THATS A VERY GOOD POINT.
I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING
ABOUT -- THEYRE TRYING TO
PROCESS ALL OF THESE CASES AT
ONCE, THEYRE TRYING TO PROCESS
THE FACT THAT THIS OTHER OFFICER
IS BEING CHARGED.
BUT YOU ARE SEEING -- IN
MINNESOTA, WEVE HAD THREE
OFFICERS CHARGED IN DEATHS OF
CIVILIANS.
THE ONLY ONE CONVICTED AS WAS
NOTED IN THE LAST BLOCK IS THE
BLACK GUY WHO KILLED THE WHITE
LADY.
BUT IT DOES FEEL LIKE THERE IS
MORE MOMENTUM TOWARD PROSECUTORS
AT LEAST TRYING, RIGHT?
IS THAT WHAT ITS GOING TO TAKE?
WEVE SEEN OTHER PROSECUTORS
SAYING WE NEED TO ATTEMPT A
PROSECUTION.
IS THAT IN YOUR VIEW PROGRESS?
>> I MEAN, IM LESS EMBARRASSED
BY THE PROSECUTION IN THIS CASE.
ITS BEEN INCREDIBLY THOROUGH.
THATS GREAT.
BUT ITS NOT JUST THE
PROSECUTION COMING FORWARD AND
DOING THEIR JOB EFFECTIVELY AND
PROFESSION LEFT
PROFESSIONALLY.
ITS THE PROFESSION SAYING,
PLEASE DONT PIN THIS ON US.
PART OF WHATS HAPPENING, IF
THERES A NOT GUILTY, GOD HELP
US ALL.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT UNDERSTANDS, THERES
NO WAY TO DO THE JOB IF THIS IS
SOMEHOW A PART OF WHATS LEGAL.
EVERYBODY IS COMING TOGETHER AND
SAYING, LETS MAKE THIS THE ONE
RANDOM ERROR THAT DOESNT INDICT
THE ENTIRE PROFESSION.
YOURE SEEING SOME MOMENTUM IN
THAT WAY.
I DONT THINK THAT IS GOING TO
HAPPEN IN THE DAUNTE WRIGHT CASE
AND I DONT THINK THAT MAKES US
ALL SAFER OR MAKES BLACK PEOPLE
FEEL LIKE, NOW ITS GOOD WITH US
AND THE COPS.
>> RIGHT.
AND MARY MORIARTY, THE OTHER
GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD A
CREDIBILITY ISSUES ARE
PROSECUTORS.
WEVE SEEN DEMOCRATIC
PROSECUTORS REFUSE TO PROSECUTE
IN CASES LIKE THE MIKE BROWN
CASE AND CASES LIKE BREONNA
TAYLOR.
PROSECUTORS ARE UNDER THE
SPOTLIGHT TOO BECAUSE WE HAVE
THIS SENSE THAT WHITE CITIZENS
ARE TREATED AS CITIZENS AND
BLACK CITIZENS ARE TREATED AS
SUBJECTS, AND THEY POLICE ON
THEM BUT NOT PROTECT.
COMING FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF
THE PARTNERS OF THE POLICE, WHAT
DO WE NEED TO DO TO GET OFF OF
THIS DIME?
THIS IS A NOT A PLACE THAT IS
SUSTAINABLE.
>> REMEMBER THAT THIS CASE WAS
TAKEN AWAY BY THE COUNTY
PROSECUTOR AND GIVEN TO THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL PARTLY BECAUSE
OF THAT VERY ISSUE.
I SEE POTENTIAL FOR TREMENDOUS
CHANGE HERE.
AR
OUR COMMUNITY -- THIS DIDNT
START WITH GEORGE FLOYD,
OBVIOUSLY.
THERES A HISTORY WITH THE
MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT,
THAT PEOPLE PARTICULARLY IN OUR
BLACK COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN TRYING
TO BRING TO THE ATTENTION OF
POLICE, POLICY OFFICIALS, AND
ITS BEEN IGNORED FOR YEARS AND
YEARS AND YEARS.
GEORGE FLOYD WAS LIKE OUR
FERGUSON MOMENT.
THAT WAS JUST KIND OF THE
ERUPTION OF ALL OF THIS TRAUMA,
THIS TENSION, THIS ANGUISH OVER
WHAT HAD BEEN HAPPENING TO
PEOPLE IN OUR BLACK COMMUNITY
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
AND I DONT THINK ANY OF US
WANTED TO GO -- WELL, WERE NOT
GOING TO LET IT GO BACK TO THE
WAY IT WAS.
ITS NOT GOING TO GO BACK TO
NORMAL.
THERES TREMENDOUS PRESSURE AND
ACTUALLY WILLINGNESS ON A LOT OF
OUR POLICYMAKERS PART TO MAKE
CHANGES, TO SEE THAT THIS -- IT
OBVIOUSLY DID HAPPEN AGAIN RIGHT
IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS TRIAL.
BUT THERES TREMENDOUS MOMENTUM
HERE TO TRY TO CHANGE THIS.
ILL ALSO SAY TO PHILLIPS POINT
ABOUT THE MPD GETTING ON THE
STAND AND SAYING THIS ISNT WHO
WE ARE AND WHAT WE DO, PEOPLE IN
THE COMMUNITY HAVE NOTICED THAT
AND, OF COURSE, PEOPLE IN THE
BLACK COMMUNITY KNOW -- FORMER
PUBLIC DEFENDER, I KNOW, I SEE
BODY CAM WHERE POLICE TREAT
PEOPLE LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME.
ITS WHAT THEY DO.
>> THATS THE PROBLEM.
THEYRE TREATING BLACK PEOPLE AS