"THE BEAT" WITH ARI MELBUR
STARTS NOW.
>> HI, NICOLE.
I’M ARI MELBUR.
AS THE PROJECT DIES OUT AND
COMPLICATES REPUBLICANS’ CHANCES
IN GEORGIA, GIULIANI IS KEEPING
THE FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR IN THE
NEWS.
>> MR. GIULIANI DID YOU ASK FOR
A PARDON?
>> ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME THAT?
OF COURSE I DIDN’T.
THAT’S RIDICULOUS.
THAT’S A VERY INSULTING
QUESTION.
I DID NOT ASK THE PRESIDENT FOR
A PARDON AND I HAVE NOT
COMMITTED ANY CRIMES.
>> MR. GIULIANI’S DENIAL DOESN’T
RULE OUT WHETHER HE DISCUSSED
THIS WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AMIDST
THE REPORTING TRUMP IS PARDONING
UP TO 20 ALLIES AND AN
UNPRECEDENTED STRING OF PARDONS
THEY CONCEDE COULD BE AN ABUSE
OF POWER AND PACK FIRE.BACKFIRE.
IT SHOWS NAMES WHY SOME
REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING NERVOUS,
POSSIBLE BENEFICIARIES RUN FROM
PAUL MANAFORT WHO TRUMP CLAIMED
HE BARELY KNEW BEFORE 2016 SO
WHY PARDON HIM AND TWO, WHAT YOU
SEE ON THE SCREEN, THE ABSURD
CONCEPT OF A CELEBRITY PARDON
FOR JOE EXOTIC FROM "THE TIGER
KING."
THIS IS REAL LIFE.
PARDON DEBATE HAS REPUBLICANS
NERVOUS BECAUSE TRUMP HAS SHOWN
LITTLE CONCERN FOR ANYTHING
OTHER THAN TROTTING OUT GIULIANI
TO LIE ABOUT THE ELECTION SINCE
HIS LOSS.
THERE IS NO OTHER PROREPUBLICAN
OR PROAMERICAN PLOTTING AS FAR
AS WE CAN TELL.
SO REGARDLESS OF HOW THIS
IMPACTS DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF
LAW OR THE GOPs HOLD ON THE
SENATE, DONALD TRUMP IS MULLING
BARRELLING AHEAD.
MEANWHILE, THE LEGAL TEAM’S
EFFORTS ARE REJECTED BY THE
COURTS.
FORCED TO DROP LAWSUITS AFTER
ADMITTING THERE IS NO VOTER
FRAUD OF EVIDENCE.
NOW WE’VE HIT A PERIOD WHERE
GIULIANI IS ATTACKING A
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE FOR
LETTING DOWN AMERICA ADDING
SHE’S ASHAMED OF THEM STOKING
INTERNAL DIVISIONS HEADING INTO
THE CRITICAL GEORGIA RUN OFFS.
NOW LIKE IT OR NOT, PRESIDENTS
HAVE BROAD PARDON POWER SO THIS
PARTICULAR TRUMP ERA BATTLE,
WHICH YOU CAN SEE REPUBLICANS
ARE INCREASINGLY NERVOUS ABOUT,
IT BOILS DOWN TO JUDGMENT, NOT
BREAKING RULES OR NORMS.
THE RULES AUTHORIZE TRUMP TO
PARDON ANYONE FOR FEDERAL CRIMES
IF HE CHOOSES TO.
THE PRESIDENT ELECT IS ALREADY
WARNING THAT EVEN IF IT’S
ALLOWED, THE CURRENT PRESIDENT’S
ACTIONS COULD UNDERMINE THE
NATION’S STANDING AROUND THE
WORLD.
>> WELL, IT CONCERNS ME IN TERMS
OF WHAT PRECEDENT IT SETS AND
HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD LOOKS
AT US AS A NATION OF LAWS AND
AND JUSTICE.
>> WE’RE JOINED BY FORMER
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR GLEN AND
MICHELLE GOLDBERG FOR "THE NEW
YORK TIMES."
GIVEN THIS IS ALLOWED, WHAT IS
YOUR VIEW THE PRESIDENT ELECT
MAKES THERE ARE OTHER COSTS?
>> YOU KNOW, ARI, WE’LL BE
TALKING A LOT ABOUT PARDONS.
I FEAR FOR THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS
AND PROBABLY FOR THE NEXT 48
DAYS BECAUSE IT IS LIKELY TO
RAIN PARDONS.
WE’RE HEARING MORE AND MORE
REPORTING DONALD TRUMP IS
CONSIDERING PARDONING ANY NUMBER
OF PEOPLE AND IT RAISES SO MANY
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PARDON
POWER.
THE FIRST, I THINK, MOST
IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW AND
EVERYBODY HAS SAID THIS
REPEATEDLY, INCLUDING ME, IS
THAT IF YOU’RE GRANTED A PARDON,
THAT AGAINGENERALLY EXTINGUISHES
FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHT SUCH THAT
YOU COULD BE FORCED OR COMPELLED
TO TESTIFY EVEN IF THAT
TESTIMONY INCLUDED THINGS THAT
INCRIMINATED YOU BECAUSE YOU
CAN’T BE PROSECUTED FOR IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT NOT QUITE THAT
SIMPLE.
IT’S MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT
BECAUSE IF YOU’RE GRANTED A
FEDERAL PARDON, YOU COULD VERY
WELL SAY THAT’S FINE BUT I MAY
HAVE COMMITTED STATE CRIMES.
SO I --
>> LET ME STEER YOU, COUNSELOR,
A LITTLE BIT BACK TO THE
QUESTION.
I APPRECIATE THE FIFTH AMENDMENT
PRIVILEGE BUT I’M CURIOUS BOTTOM
LINE, DO YOU THINK IT IS A
PROBLEM EVEN IF ALLOWED THAT
DONALD TRUMP GO FORWARD WITH
THESE TYPE OF PARDONS AND WHAT
DO YOU THINK OF WHAT WE SHOWED,
RUDY GIULIANI CLAIMING HE HAS NO
INTEREST IN ANY OF THIS,
MEANWHILE, THERE IS REPORTING,
HARD REPORTING MULTIPLE SOURCES
SAYING THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
THIS FOR A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE.
>> ARI, ORDINARILY IT WOULD BE A
POLITICAL PROBLEM BUT DONALD
TRUMP IMMUNE OR
UNCONCERNED AS DO HIS REPUBLICAN
SUPPORTERS --
>> GLEN, I’M ASKING YOU, DO YOU