>>> WELCOME BACK TO VELSHI AND RUEHL.
RUEHL. NEWS IS ONCE AGAIN BUBBLING
AROUND THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION,
BUT THIS TIME IT IS A NAME YOU
MIGHT NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH.
YOU KNOW THAT GUY?
>> HE’S A 72-YEAR-OLD, HE WORKED
AT INFO WARS AND OTHER SITES.
RELEVANT TO RUSSIA, HOWEVER,
HE’S AN ASSOCIATE OF THE FORMER
TRUMP ADVISER ROGER STONE.
STONE TOLD THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE ON JOHN
PODESTA.
PODESTA. OF COURSE HE’S THE GUY ON THE
LEFT.
LEFT. >> BUT THEY’RE BOTH JERSEY GUYS.
JOINING US --
>> YOU HAD EXTRA BREAKFAST OR
JUICE --
JUICE -- >> NOW THAT WE MOVED UNTIL 1:00,
IT’S THAT I’M FED.
I USED TO BE HUNGRY, FELTING
TIRED.
TIRED. NOW I’VE EATEN.
DANIEL GOLDMAN.
DANIEL GOLDMAN. AND NBC NEWS SENIOR EXECUTIVE
PRODUCER ANNA SCHECTER.
ALL RIGHT, ANNA, WALK US THROUGH
THIS.
THIS. BECAUSE CORSI TOLD HIS
SUBSCRIBERS IN A LIFE FEED HE’S
GOING TO GET INDICTED.
>> HE TOLD ME THE SAME THING
EARLIER IN THE DAY.
HE HAD A MEETING LAST WEEK WITH
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
INVESTIGATORS.
INVESTIGATORS. IT LED HIM TO BELIEVE AN
INDICTMENT FOR PERJURY IS
IMMINENT.
IMMINENT. THEY HAD A BINDER EIGHT INCHES
THICK HE SAID, ALL HIS
CONVERSATIONS WITH ROGER STONE,
WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, WITH
POTENTIALLY WIKILEAKS.
POTENTIALLY WIKILEAKS. HE SAID HE NEVER TALKED TO
JULIANNE ASSANGE BUT SPECIAL
COUNSEL INVESTIGATORS HAVE
EVERYTHING ON HIM AND HE’S
NERVOUS.
NERVOUS. >> SO DANIEL, HE USED THE TERM
PERJURY TRAP.
PERJURY TRAP. THEY QUESTIONED HIM FOR SO LONG
HE GOT CONFUSED, HE SAID HIS
BRAIN WENT TO MUSH.
AS PROSECUTORS, THAT’S WHAT YOU
KIND OF DO, ASK 15 DIFFERENT
WAYS.
WAYS. >> 40 HOURS IS A LONG TIME.
>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
>> I’M ASSUMING IT WASN’T
CONSECUTIVE BUT THE FIRST THICK
IS DEBUNK THIS WHOLE PERJURY
TRACK PHENOMENON.
TRACK PHENOMENON. THERE’S AN ACTUAL OFFENSE OF
PERJURY TRAP.
PERJURY TRAP. IT’S WHEN THERE’S NO
INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSE FOR THEM
TO TESTIFY.
TO TESTIFY. THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT WHAT
HAPPENED HERE.
HAPPENED HERE. WHAT CORSI SEEMS TO BE SAYING IS
HE’S TRYING TO CREATE A DEFENSE
FOR HIMSELF.
FOR HIMSELF. HE’S SAYING I DON’T RECALL.
HE’S SAYING AND MY BRAIN TURNED
TO MUSH.
TO MUSH. AND THAT COULD IN THEORY BE A
DEFENSE TO A CHARGE OF PERJURY.
PERJURY WOULD ONLY BE FOR GRAND
JURY TESTIMONY.
JURY TESTIMONY. IT’S UNCLEAR WHICH ONE IT WILL
BE.
BE. >> DID HE TELL YOU?
>> NO.
>> NO. BUT HE SEEMED TO INSINUATE IT
WAS IN MEETINGS WITH FBI AGENTS,
PROSECUTORS.
PROSECUTORS. >> THIS IS A CHARGE WE’VE SEEN
ROBERT MUELLER BRING AGAINST A
NUMBER OF DEFENDANTS.
YOU DON’T BRING IT LIGHTLY.
I HAD MANY INVESTIGATIONS WHERE
WE HAD WITNESSES COME IN AND
THEY LIED TO US AND WE KNEW IT,
BUT IT REQUIRED A LOT OF
RESOURCES TO CHARGE SOMEONE, TO
GO THROUGH A WHOLE PROSECUTION.
AS WE’VE SEEN, THERE’S NOT A LOT
OF TIME.
OF TIME. SO WE OFTEN WOULD SAY IT’S NOT
WORTH OUR TIME, LET’S FOCUS ON
THE BIGGER FISH.
>> LET’S SAY HE TAKES A PLEA OR
GETS INDICTED, WHERE DOES
MUELLER GO FROM THERE?
>> WITH CORSI OR GENERALLY?
>> THE WHOLE THING.
BECAUSE CORSI COULD BE A
CONSPIRACY THEORIST --
>> OR HE COULD.
>> THAT’S THE HEART OF IT, IS
DID HE GET INFORMATION FROM
WIKILEAKS AND TRANSFER IT TO
STONE OR SOMEONE IN THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN?
CAMPAIGN? WE’RE FAR AWAY FROM THAT.
WHAT THIS TELLS US ABOUT THE
MUELLER INVESTIGATION, WE’RE NOT
REALLY HEARING ABOUT RUSSIA
COLLUSION WITH TRUMP CAMPAIGN
OFFICIALS.
OFFICIALS. WE’RE NOT SEEING THOSE LEAKS
COME OUT.
COME OUT. WE’RE SEEING THIS STRANGE CAST
OF CHARACTERS.
OF CHARACTERS. MUELLER’S PEOPLE ARE SPENDING
SOMETIMES MONTHS DIGGING THROUGH
EVERY CONVERSATION THEY HAD IN
THAT SUMMER/FALL IN 2016 BEFORE
PODESTA’S E-MAILS DROP.
BECAUSE CORSI WAS E-MAILING
STONE.
STONE. IN AUGUST, IN SEPTEMBER, BEFORE
THOSE E-MAILS DROPPED, THAT
OCTOBER SURPRISE, AND IT SEEMED
THAT HE KNEW IN ADVANCE ABOUT
THE PODESTA E-MAILS.
>> CAN YOU IMAGINE A GUY LIKE
DANIEL GOLDMAN, YOU GOO THROUGH
ALL THIS EDUCATION AND WORK AND
THEN YOU’RE GOING THROUGH JEROME
CORSI’S E-MAILS AND TEXTS.
WACKY STUFF IN THERE.
THAT’S GOT TO MAKE YOU HATE YOUR
JOB.
JOB. >> YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE STUFF
PROSECUTORS SEE WHAT WE WISH WE
NEVER HAD TO SAY.
>> WHAT IS YOUR REAL TAKE AWAY
OF ALL THIS?
>> THIS IS A PROCESS CRIME WHICH
IS TO SAY DON’T MESS WITH BOB
MUELLER.
MUELLER. IF YOU LIE, YOU’RE GOING TO GET
CHARGED.
CHARGED. THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON.
TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF
WHETHER THERE WERE INDIVIDUALS
WITH THE CAMPAIGN WHO WERE
CONSPIRING.
CONSPIRING. IF YOU’RE GOING TO LIE TO
PROTECT SOMEONE, THEN YOU’RE
GOING TO GET CHARGED TOO.
>> YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO TALK TO
CORSI.
CORSI. >> I WAS TO TAPE AN INTERVIEW
WITH HIM EXCLUSIVELY.
HIS LAWYER JUST HAD --
>> YOU BURIED THE LEAD.
>> YES.
>> YES. >> SO IN A CAR OUTSIDE 30 ROC
AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
>> HE DOESN’T GET OUT.
HIS LAWYER SAYS SHUT IT DOWN.
HIS LAWYER JUST HAD A CALL WITH
SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE.
HE WON’T TELL ME WHAT TRANSPIRED
IN THAT CAR.
>> GET OUT OF TOWN.
IS HE GOING TO PAY YOU BACK FOR
THAT RIDE?
THAT RIDE? >> YOU KNOW, ANNA SCHECTER SAID
OVER THERE, DON’T COME INTO THE
ROOM UNTIL --
>> I’M SORRY, IF I KNEW THAT
WOULD HAPPEN, I’D HAVE BEEN
HANGING OUT AT 30 ROC ALL
MORNING.
MORNING. >> A COMPLICATED STORY.
>> DID HE SAY SORRY TO YOU?