here to talk about his book the last meth what the rise of apocalyptic
thinking tells us about america is arthur matthew gross income wrote the
book with mel delis of math is really great to talk to you uh... today is
actually a day that
has some significance is may twenty first and last year we interviewed
allison warden
from the week and no project and she was kind of one of the mouthpieces for the
herald camping
may twenty first twenty eleven is the end of the world now of course unless
we're living in a fantasy world now the world didn't and last may twenty first
we haven't been able to get any comment from allison on the since then
but it brings up an interesting broader point what's your address in the book
which is
what is the source and fascination with
and of the world an apocalyptic thinking and what is the history of the also how
far back does it go and are we seeing more of a prevalence now
pick a place to start and i through a bunch of questions out there and it will
wear warehouse the we start thinking about this
well you know it's interesting to think you know if we think about history and
where does receptive departments came from and why it's so yelling to us i
think we can
kind of arrive at a point worries certainly understand what happened last
night when a person also what was happening to uh...
perhaps even a large degree with the upcoming december twenty first in some
expectations that that might marked the end of the world in the beginning of a
radical new era
so units have been to think about it where it is the idea of the profits come
from lowest
amended as part of the twenty five hundred years old you really comes to us
from the political history bitches and the experience that they had
uh... in israel and then in babylon uh... cutting buffeted by these major
empires that spokesman for another period of time
the jewish people can understand that history was meaningful that history was
a place where god would unfold his plan for people
and uh... uh...
in that experience
uh... this idea that
maybe in this case from history was needed and that's really the central
idea
at the core of the apocalypse okay so we see of course a lot of religious based
end of the world theory
you alluded to the mind the supposedly mayan calendar december twenty first
twenty twelve end of the world theory
bottles there is also a secular side to apocalyptic
thinking wouldn't tell us a little bit about where that comes from
well you know the idea of progresses secular progress really kind of
rigidity
obviously journeyman enlightenment and which came out of the reformation which
was a period
that was
preceded by a lot of apocalyptic anticipation martin luther uh... you
know decried pope leo at cmc pricing there's a lot of apocalyptic rhetoric at
that time and a lot of bloodshed came out of reformation which a lot of people
don't remember uh... there is a lot of bloodshed and injury pollen at the
reformation
decided progress really started to emerge as an alternative to
an apocalyptic end to the agents that he will be and i believe that
we could of through science series in really create a more perfect world on
earth and and to certain agree we do need god to do so
but that idea of progress in the future of progress through history really
servitude
come undone at the beginning of the twentieth century with the first world
war
and that
undoing really accelerated with the detonation of the first atomic bomb in
nineteen forty-five en route from that period from nineteen forty five onwards
to begin to see in this secularized into this
rise in secular apocalyptic thinking
and uh... you know that it's already done so
we've learned that many of the promises of science and technology that we follow
bruce better life are in many ways threatening our lives and threatening me
deliveries c_n_n_ live in the world so when is when you mention that when
you're talking about a talking about what some would argue it will all the
thought that what what do you mean by that
but for example the and
because on his is one obvious example and we had
of periods of intense fear of a nuclear exchange in the nineteen fifties and
through the nineteen eighties one could say it's receded a bit
but now we've seen how
of the age of oil and and the use of carbon fuels has threatened to the world
as well to climate change
and we've also seen how
uh... the growth in the
the ability to bring our future technology and current fuel includes has
produced a problem of overpopulation and
resource depletion if something because we actually see you know it's that there
is
there's such as
different spin the origins of someone like when allison ward was on the show
and she was telling me
uh... this is going to be the place that which uh... matt last may twenty first
where god decides who is good enough to live the maternal afterlife and who is
going to be sucked into the planet of the depth of the planet and and uh...
punished in health for all eternity compared to condoms what may appear to
have to rational fingers as well we may be approaching
what we may be hurting the the the the possibility of staying on this planet
indefinitely because of all of the
reasons you listed
it's two sets different
places to start from but it's still ends up with a tendency among humans to think
about
the end of the world what what does that tell us that you can start of such
different places but end up with the same concern
well i think what it tells us is that the apocalypse in many ways
uh... we often feared but in many ways it's it's a comforting idea it's it's
the notion that
the world will end soon and therefore to certain agree on the top of
responsibility
uh... if we come to think of climate change as well collapse is going to come
as a result of it it really uh... changes are our relation to it because
to senator we do become powerless but we also thankful it's inevitable
and therefore no need to make the small changes like
change in our label to reduce your energy consumption to possibly over
uh...
global climate change and and it's absolutely there is the difference i
find though is and i think there is to get your thought it was missing you've
studied this much more detail
on decide that seems more concerned about taking care of the planet and
resources and climate change
there seems to be a much more uh... kind of
forward thinking positive attitude whereof as far as let's fix this let's
make sure that that that the planet will be here for us
whereas a on the allison warden harold camping and of the world religious side
it seems to be more of a dot is angry type of thing
and there is going to be punishment there is going to be revenge that that's
it so it really is very different is that
it is different but there are similarities because i i do think
there's an agreed
when treatment we talked about climate change very our compound ourselves
embracing that kind of
apocalyptic dialectic and thinking about how
for example um... well
eventually climate change will become apparent to everybody and everybody will
understand the way the world is not this is really we need to understand it
and that's not so different from the belief that
the celebrate the opening price will appear in the sky and everybody believer
non-believer alike will understand that this is the way the world is
so yes they certainly i think i on the leptin and among sector
people
a relationship between the idea of
apocalyptic and and the desire to avoid at a park or detect
apocalyptic end through progress but there are a lot of similarities in one
of the things that we argue in the last minute in our book
is that
the more we can understand how we
fallback upon this apocalyptic idea
but more likely we are to move beyond it and find a solution span
implement them
i read the book is the last met with the rise of apocalyptic thinking tells us
about america
matthew gross mel gila through the authors really opposed to speak with you
nothing
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