[SOUND] Hear that?
Silence.
We often equate communication with talking, but not talking,
that is listening is as important if not more important.
I'm Matt Abraham, and
I teach Strategic Communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, The Podcast, today I am so
excited to be joined by my strategic communication teaching partner and
longtime friend Kristin Hanson.
Beyond teaching our class, Kristin recently co-taught leadership for society,
big arguments courageous leadership.
Beyond her lecturing at the GSB, Kristin is the executive director of
the Civic Health Project and a board member of the Listen First Project.
Hey there partner, welcome to the podcast, ready to have some fun?
>> Well, Matt, I always have fun talking and teaching with you.
In fact, there's nothing I'd rather be doing every Monday before 8 o'clock in
the morning [LAUGH].
>> [LAUGH] It is quite early, there are lots of things I would rather
do before 8, >> [LAUGH]
>> But I truly enjoy teaching with you
>> Let's go ahead and
get started, we have known each other for a long, long time,
we taught our first public speaking class together in Stanford's engineering
school while undergraduates three decades ago.
>> Well as they say Matt, time flies when you're having fun.
>> [LAUGH] And things get better with age at least I hope.
Back then we had a lot of fun helping our students communicate better,
what are one or
two best practices you find yourself still highlighting after all of these years?
>> Our challenge back at that time was helping students in technical degree
programs to convey complex ideas in more accessible ways.
And to this day, that is something I still really enjoy and I know you do too,
helping students craft engaging storylines from dense complex or
highly technical material.
And, I also remembered we helped students reduce filler words like and
like, from their verbal communications.
We would actually bang a book on the desk each time they did it, well,
we don't bank books anymore, do we?
But we still help students to be more confident and
fluid in their verbal delivery.
>> I remember banging books, ringing bells, clapping hands, and today,
of course there's an app for that.
One thing many folks don't know about you,
is that you were a true pioneer in virtual communication.
Our students really [LAUGH] enjoy and get a kick out of showing the video we have of
you selling the first video conference technologies from the last century.
>> Okay Matt [LAUGH], now you're really making me feel old, but you're right,
I actually worked for the early 1990's version of Zoom.
>> Thinking back to then and bringing it forward to now, what are a couple of
the best practices you can share about hybrid in virtual communication?
>> Effective virtual communication both, then and now is so
much about getting the setup right, is my network connection strong and reliable?
How's my lighting?
Should I use headphones with a mic?
Pro tip, yes, you should.
Do I have permission from the other side to display my slides?
Getting any of these things wrong,
risks losing your audience before you've even gotten underway.
And once the show begins, it's about finding ways to leap out of your screen.
How do I let my audience know that not only do they see me, I see them,
effective virtual communication is about closing the distance and
coming across a bigger than that little screen that holds you.
>> So many important points there about presence, about engagement,
about permission.
But the one thing I heard you say that I really want to dig deep into that helped
me so much when we went virtual was the notion of it's a show.
You helped me understand that you have to plan and
coordinate your virtual communication.
You have to think about the timing, who speaks when,
how quickly do you move from one thing to the other,
just like you're an executive producer of a television show.
And once I started doing that,
it freed me up to be more of myself in my virtual communication.
So thank you for that personally, and thank you for
the advice you shared with all of us.
I'd like now to shift gears from talking and presenting which is what we primarily
help our students with here at the business school to listening,
which is a big focus of your work outside of the Business School.
Can you describe that work and
how it relates to the principle of listening first?
>> Well, after getting my MBA here at Stanford and enjoying a long career in
the tech sector, I started worrying a few years ago and I know I'm not alone, about
what seemed like an alarming deterioration in our civil discourse here in the US.
Infecting our politics or media,
even just everyday interactions among families, friends, neighbors.
And for me that sense of alarm prompted me to pivot out of tech and
into an emerging sector in our country full of organizations that are focused on
helping Americans to bridge our social, cultural and political divides.
So now, I run a philanthropy it's called Civic Health Project, and
we help organizations that are doing bridge building work across the US.
And I also serve on the Board of Listen First Project, hashtag listen first.
>> [LAUGH]. >> The umbrella organization that
represents hundreds,
literally hundreds of grassroots bridge building organizations across the country.
Collectively this whole field is focused on a pretty monumental task,
we're trying to shift norms in our country towards listening.
And away from cancelling toward intellectual humility and
away from absolutism and virtue signaling toward curiosity and
away from animosity >> I still respect the efforts that you
and your colleagues are doing to really help make a difference in our civil
discourse and I can see so
clearly how you can apply the skills that we teach our students.
I'm curious if we can bring this back to a very tactical set of advice and
guidance, what are some best practices you've learned,
that leaders, managers, and employees can use to help listen better?
>> Well, there's no silver bullet here, but
it's important to understand that better listening starts with intent.
Listening actively and deeply happens when I genuinely believe that the person who's
speaking, has intrinsic worth and brings a perspective that I lack and I need.
In work settings just like in our personal lives, our relationships thrive when
we cultivate our own open mindedness, intellectual humility, genuine curiosity.
I love how the book Conscious Leadership by John Mackey and
Steve McIntosh explores this idea of cultivating an integral worldview.
Urging business leaders to appreciate and
synthesize employees' diverse backgrounds and beliefs and
perspectives when aiming to resolve conflict or make transformative change.
Active listening is at the core of developing this more integral worldview.
And when we listen it isn't a passive exercise ,active inquiry is part of
listening to, the trick is asking genuine questions that open up new pathways for
understanding.
Now this can really feel hard, when the viewpoints or the values that are being
expressed by somebody else challenge our own, including in our workplaces.
But that is also when the greatest opportunity for learning presents itself,
even if we understand this intuitively, it is hard to do.
>> Practicing listening just like practicing speaking is so critical,
one of the key elements that you talked about Kristin,
was this notion of how you approach it, it's your mindset.
Many of us listen just enough to try to understand what the person is saying
rather than really deeply try to figure out the nuance, the meaning.
I like to instruct people to listen by trying to figure out what's
the bottom line of what the person is saying.
Now, I have to say, I might be better at teaching this than actually doing it.
In the conversations we have sometimes I don't listen well and
my wife reminds me all the time that I don't listen as well as I can, but
we need to listen with intent.
And then I would really like what you said about inquiry following,
so it's not just about listening, it's about synthesizing, and
then following up through listening and paraphrasing.
Last fall, you co-taught with Brian Lowry, a former guest here,
a class called leadership for society, big arguments, courageous leadership.
What was the main thrust of that course and what takeaways can you share with us?
>> Co-teaching that course big arguments courageous leadership with
Dean Lowry was a chance to equip students here at the business school.
With some of the theories out of social psychology as well as the tools and
practices, to help listen better, contemplate different perspectives and
navigate conflicts where they emerge.
From the boardroom to the school board to thanksgiving weekend with family [LAUGH].
>> [LAUGH] >> One of the main concepts that we urged
our students to contemplate and
focus on is developing and applying that integral worldview.
That considers and synthesizes different perspectives among diverse workforces and
citizenries.
And just to broaden that a bit beyond workplaces and
leadership roles that many of our students will go on to inhabit in the workplace,
just looking at our society, as Americans today.
By now we can all see that the shouting, the posturing, the grandstand,
isn't really getting us anywhere.
One of my favorite quotes from a colleague Mark Curzon is the world today
has an advocacy surplus and an inquiry deficit.
These massive societal challenges that we're facing,
they're not going to get solved if we just sort and retreat into tribal factions.
We label Americans outside our own tribes as enemies,
we lose any sense of trust or goodwill towards one another.
Social Science Research, and this is a lot of what we delved into in the course,
it makes it clear that when we engage in deep,
genuine listening, perspective taking and perspective sharing.
So that is hearing other people's lived experiences and
honestly sharing our own, that's how we get down to the root.
That's how we begin to cultivate deep reservoirs of trust, goodwill and
empathy toward one another, and that is a recipe for success in business and
in our civic life.
>> So much there that is so important,
the foundation of this podcast is really based on some of those principles.
It's really better understanding yourself, being able to listen and then respond and
communicate in a way that is connected respectful and hopefully positively
directed towards solving problems, achieving goals, pitching well.
Given the wide variety of topics you teach,
do you have any last ideas you'd like to share?
>> Here's my chance to plug the idea that business can actually be uniquely
impactful in helping to shift people in our society and other societies away
from deep division and toward greater social cohesion through skills.
That include, listening, inquiry, perspective sharing, and so
on and there and three reasons for this.
First of all, we know that business leaders are more highly trusted
than nearly all other institutional leaders in our society.
So there's receptivity to the idea that business leadership can
point the way forward.
Second, workforces are used to getting trained and
acquiring new skills at work, it's one of the few places that we achieve norms and
skill development and at scale after we become adults.
And finally, work is one place where we as Americans do tend
to bump up against people with different backgrounds, beliefs, and values,
something that's becoming more rare in all other parts of our lives.
So it's a perfect place not only to learn but also to practice skills of listening,
bridging, problem solving and social cohesion.
>> So well put, it is abundantly clear that the skills we teach can be so
helpful to our students, to their colleagues that they will have
in the future in the workforce, and to our society.
I really, really appreciate you highlighting the value of listening and
strategic communication.
Now, I've been looking forward to this for a long time Kristin, before we end,
I'd like to ask you the same three questions I ask everybody who joins me,
are you up for that?
>> I am.
>> If you were to capture the best communication advice
you ever received as a five to seven words slide title, what would it be?
>> Use a microphone and hold it close to your mouth, sorry, that's nine words.
>> [LAUGH] So, I know you're big on amplifying your
message, >> [LAUGH]
>> I'm curious,
why of all the things you could have said did you choose to say that?
>> It's the simplest thing, but if your audience can't hear you they're going to
tune out and you don't want that to happen.
>> And I know you have so many suggestions for
how to get your audience's attention to sustain that attention and you're right,
if they can't hear you they can't listen and learn.
Question number two,
what are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?
>> I'd be remiss if I didn't share the advise we give our students quarter after
quarter, know your audience, know your context, and know your speaking goal.
What is it you want that audience to leave, thinking, feeling and
doing differently because they've just listened to you?
>> There you go, folks, you don't have to attend our class, you got it all in three
key ideas, know your audience, know your context and know your goal.
Who is a communicator that you admire and why?
>> Well Matt, in saying this I'm ending our talk on a somewhat more serious note.
But my answer to this question has to be Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky,
talk about knowing your audience, your context and your speaking goal,
I mean well, literally under fire.
He has the presence and
the composure to explain what he needs whether from the Ukrainian people,
from Russia or from Western Democracies, I'm flared, amazed and humbled.
>> Absolutely, it's been truly remarkable to see somebody under the pressures and
stresses that are going on to communicate so clearly and so passionately.
Kristin, thank you so much for being here,
you know I love collaborating with you and learning from you, and
I love the fact that our audience gets to learn from you as well.
Thanks for sharing your insights and ideas with all of us and
thanks for not sharing any of the embarrassing stories you have about me.
>> It's been a pleasure, Matt.
[MUSIC] >> Thanks for joining us for
another episode of Think fast Talk Smart,
The Podcast, produced by Stanford University's Graduate School of Business.
For more information and episodes, visit gsb.stanford.edu or
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Finally, find us on social media at stanford.gsb.