[Lord Speaker] Fourth oral question, Viscount Stansgate.
[Viscount Stansgate] My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question
standing in my name on the order paper.
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] My Lords, the United Kingdom is working very
closely with our allies and partners in our continuing condemnation of the actions of
Russia and Mr Putin for their reprehensible attack on Ukraine.
We have worked very closely with the United States, and the Foreign Secretary visited
last week to further co-ordinate our support for Ukraine.
We have also engaged directly with China, and have been clear that China must also stand
up for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and not condone Mr Putin’s actions.
[Viscount Stansgate] My Lords, I thank the minister for that answer.
Would he agree that the geopolitics of the world in which we live are being changed by
the unjustified war and invasion of Ukraine?
And would he further agree that the Chinese are clearly uneasy about the way in which the
situation is developing?
Therefore as a permanent member of the Security Council of the United Nations, cannot the British
government take an initiative to work with the Chinese and the Americans to try to secure,
for example, humanitarian corridors to enable aid to go in and people to come out safely?
And will the government not try to promote these actively with all our partners, because it is the right
thing to do?
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] My Lords, I agree with the noble Viscount
on both points and I assure the noble Viscount we are working very closely with the
Chinese, amongst other countries.
My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke with her Chinese counterpart, Foreign
Minister and State Councillor Wang Yi, on Friday 25 February.
And in that, she underlined the UK’s expectation of China’s role in the current crisis.
And of course as we have heard, it has an important role in the multilateral system.
We are engaging at all levels, officially and as I've said, a ministerial level.
In terms of all other member states, as was demonstrated
in the UN General Assembly vote, where 141 nations came together, demonstrated how we are working
with key partners and indeed other countries.
It is important that we are universal in our condemnation of the Russian war on Ukraine.
[Lord Howell of Guildford] My Lords, there is a lot in what the noble
Viscount, Lord Stansgate, says.
And are we, in our discussions with the Americans, urging them to pump and export more
oil?
As we are urging the Saudis to do, and as indeed the Chinese are also urging the Saudis to do.
Following this path, could ministers explain more clearly to the public that, while
we are all in favour of long-term energy transformation away from fossil fuels, in the short term
these measures are necessary, not only to put a squeeze on Russia over Ukraine but also to
avoid the hideous spikes in prices and energy costs which at present are causing so much
suffering to so many people, particularly the most vulnerable?
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] Again, I agree with my noble friend, and that
is why my right honourable friend the Prime Minister visited the Middle East.
The immediate issue is one of energy security and ensuring a total move away from
reliance on Russian energy, and indeed Russian gas in terms of the whole world.
Indeed there are countries who are heavily reliant on Russian gas.
We applaud obviously the decisions taken by the likes of Germany recently, in their decision on Nord Stream
2, and their pausing of that particular project.
Equally, we are seeing very strong collaboration and collective action on ensuring that, from
a global community point of view but also for our own citizens, the issue of energy
security remains a key priority.
[Lord Purvis of Tweed] My Lords, the positions of China and India
is of course of concern to UK interests.
Has the government signalled to China that any preferential market access to UK financial
services will be questioned?
And with regards to India, the UK is in discussions about a free trade agreement
But it is reported today that India is in discussions with Russia for a rupee/rouble trading arrangement
which will circumvent the sanctions restrictions.
The head of the export organisation for India said:
“Other nations are banning exports to Russia, so it is a good time for Indian exporters
to enter into the Russian market”.
Does the minister believe that it is disagreeable that the UK will be offering preferential
market access to the very financiers that are circumventing our restrictions?
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] My Lords, first of all on the issue of China,
we have been very clear that if China wants to be seen as a responsible global actor,
they need to take concrete steps to show that China in no way condones Russia’s actions.
This alludes also to providing alternatives in terms of market access.
On the issue of India, India is a key strategic partner.
We are building strong alliances with India, we are having very clear discussions with India on its role
both in conflict resolution but also the long-term situation pertaining to Ukraine.
And I know the Indian Foreign Minister has engaged directly with both Ukraine and Russia.
On the issue of the report he alluded to
Let's wait for formal announcements.
I do not want to comment on particular speculation.
[Lord McDonald of Salford] Does the noble Lords the minister
assess that the Chinese understand that more than just the United Kingdom’s relations
with Russia are in question right now?
Essentially, it is not possible for a country—especially a big country—to be neutral in the face
of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
So if China is not clearly part of the opposition, we shall have to reassess our relations with
China too.
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] The noble Lord again points to an important
role.
As the noble Lord himself will know, China is not just another player.
It is a key player on the global stage.
And it's not the same as Russia.
China still wants to be seen as a responsible global actor, whereas Russia has launched
an unprovoked and premeditated attack against a sovereign democratic state.
I think also the fact, as I have said before, China did abstain in the key Security Council resolution
also shows quite directly about China's concern on the current war in Ukraine.
[Lord Collins of Highbury] My Lords, can I just return to the point about
multilateralism.
And of course, our support for President Zelensky and the people of Ukraine must be complete.
And that also means that his positive noises that President Zelenskyy is making about the talks with Russia
That we need to support him with those as well.
So what is the noble Lord and the government doing to ensure that we can back President Zelenskyy in those talks?
And that we take the outcome of the talks to the multilateral institutions and gain the
support of China and others for this progress, so that we can bring this horrible war to
an end.
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] On the noble Lord’s final comment, I think
we all want to see that.
We want to see this war which has gone on now for many days and many weeks and we see
increasing attacks and indeed indiscriminate attacks on the Ukrainian people.
This calls for the need for peace and conflict resolution.
And of course we back all current initiatives which are under way, seeking a resolution.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation and must lead on this.
I assure the noble Lord that the Prime Minister is in daily contact with President Zelenskyy
and is fully abreast of the initiatives and where the current progress is.
Russia can stop this in an instant.
That is where the pressure should come.
It needs to stop and pull back.
No preconditions in terms of where we go with this, but Ukraine must
lead, and of course we will support President Zelenskyy in his peace efforts.
[Lord Cormack] My Lords, is it not particularly sad for us
that India, the greatest democracy in size and a crucially important member of the Commonwealth,
is taking the abstaining line in the UN?
Is not this something we ought to be endeavouring with every diplomatic effort to ensure that India comes on side,
as a democracy should?
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] My Lords, I am the minister responsible for
our relations with India and I can assure my noble friend that we are having very constructive
engagement with India on the issue of the Ukrainian war.
India also recognises its important role.
Of course, it has a strong historic relationship with Russia, but it also recognises that what
has happened is an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state.
And it is important, as my noble friend said, that all democracies around the world call for
an immediate ceasefire.
But immediately after that, is ensuring that the territorial sovereignty
and integrity of Ukraine is fully protected.
[Lord Browne of Ladyton] My Lords, on that very issue of the territorial
integrity of Ukraine, I was pleased to see that yesterday the FCDO’s update included
in its very first point a reference to the peace talks and to President Zelenskyy’s
demand that the world gives his country ongoing, guaranteed, legally enforceable security for
its borders.
It is not surprising, because the Budapest Memorandum proved worthless and unenforceable.
The Minsk agreements were also unenforceable and unimplementable.
Deterrence has failed him.
It is only serving the purposes of the bloody aggressor who is stopping us from putting
in the skies some safety for the people of Ukraine.
We should now be turning our attention to how the future of Ukraine—when it is eventually
negotiated, as it will have to be—can be guaranteed.
The international co-operation we have on economics and sanctions forms the basis of that.
We should be working on that now to reinforce Zelensky’s position in these negotiations.
[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] My Lords, in response to the noble Lord he
will be aware that the United Kingdom has a very strong relationship with Ukraine which
doesn't just date back to the start of this Russian war of choice but it's very much something
that's long standing.
We have been providing defensive support to Ukraine since the annexation of Crimea.
Defence continues to play an important, central role in the UK’s response to the Russian
invasion.
Equally the point he says on sanctions etc
It's not about now; we have already begun this work.
It is multifaceted and the important thing is that we are working in unison with our
key partners.