- Should I at this point be spending all this time
now trying to get Google going?
- Yes, because there's a (bleep)
money to be made from it.
You want the traffic, you want the branding
you want the revenue, right?
Go for it.
(upbeat music)
- Okay so going to the actual content itself.
I'm picking up on where this might go.
But any length of article preferable
or you're just saying, just don't think about these things.
- Don't think about them.
Do whatever's best for the user.
It's like everyone's like, oh, I need a 5,000 word article.
Well if your articles on how to tie a tie
do you think people want to read 5,000 words
on how to tie a tie?
(bell chiming)
Exactly.
But if your article is
on how to build a car motor engine from scratch
I don't think people want a thousand words.
They want probably more than 5,000 words
and they probably want images and gifs and videos integrated
so that way they know how to do it step-by-step.
- Hmm, okay. Interesting.
Very helpful.
So the content itself then
I am only looking to to write this from humans,
or can I look at using things
like ChatGPT to get me 90% of the way there?
- You can use the AI
but you may have to modify it way more than 10%.
- Okay.
- Again, your content needs to have the double E, A, T.
You're not going to get that from ChatGPT
and you're not going to get it from a 10% modification.
- [Interviewer] Can you see a time where that will change?
Can you see this getting better and better
and better and with better prompts come better articles?
- I think so but I think humans will need
to modify it for a long time.
- [Interviewer] Okay. Interesting.
Talk me through that a little bit more, what so-
- People overestimate what AI can do for them
at least in the short run.
They believe it's an end all be all
and they can do everything.
I also think people underestimate what it can do
for you in the long run.
And I can probably do way more than people are expecting
and yet time will tell what it can do.
But imagine right now, you know, if you're using AI
and you have it create a piece of content
it's scouring the web and using that
as a baseline to come up with something new.
How's that going to help you create anything unique?
- Right? Yep.
- Their, their algorithm or the way they create
and process your prompts
and create you content has to change.
If it was able to create you something that's unique
and special that other people aren't talking about.
How do they do that?
I don't know, that's probably a better question
for Sam Altman or Elon Musk.
But if they're able to do that, sure.
Then you're talking about it's really game changing.
I just dunno how they'd do that.
- So would there be any merit
in me going to chat gpt prompting them to give me, you know,
something to start with,
but specifically prompting them to SEO optimize
this article they're writing?
Would you feel that'd spit
out something that's actually going to help the SEO or, again-
- We've tried it, not much.
They're just using what they're finding on the web.
But again, if you want to rank
for any term that's competitive, let's say auto insurance
there's already a billion results in the United States.
Only a few hundred thousand people are clicking.
They're clicking on page one.
That means out of a billion plus articles
or web pages 10 are getting majority of the traffic
you really need to do something that stands
out to do well in SEO.
- Okay.
- And I don't see ChatGPT doing that.
- Well, not at least anytime soon.
- Correct and if they can do it soon,
that means everyone's using it.
So how do you stand out
when everyone's doing the same thing?
You still got to go above and beyond.
- Okay, so before we move on from ai
I'm going to just sidetrack us a little bit.
Where do you see AI being most prevalent
in your business at the moment?
Like what are you using that is most helpful?
- Analytics. Analyzing ad spend.
Figuring out where there's wastage
in real time and then adjusting from there.
because most people don't look
at their analytics on a daily basis.
And if they do
they're not actually looking for actionable insights
and they're not making changes based on that.
That's where there's a ton of savings and opportunity.
It's not sexy.
Just a lot of opportunity there.
Look how much money people spend on Google and Facebook.
Imagine if you can be 10, 20, 30% more efficient.
- Hmm. And so how, how are you doing that?
If I wanted to leverage AI to analyze my numbers?
- Yeah, so you take all your data, pop it into place
call it Google Data Studio, Tableau, wherever you want to use
and you need to use AI and tell them
to start analyzing the data on a regular basis.
I don't know exactly how you get there
at the end of the day, we more so have engineers
who help us implement all this stuff.
I'm not the one coding and figuring out, but it works.
- Okay, perfect.
Any other AI tools that are helping you
at the moment that don't need an engineer
to put it together?
Is there just anything standard?
- Midjourney.
- Okay.
- Midjourney is really good for images.
- [Interviewer] Yep.
- I don't know about copyright laws and stuff like that
but it's really good for images.
- Okay, awesome.
So back to the content itself.
Few more questions on that.
Am I ideally breaking up my content into sections?
Am I putting little mini headers?
- You are. Think of it like a book.
You want to break it down, not because of SEO
but because it makes it easier
for someone to read the article or skim it.
Include images, videos, whatever makes it the most usable.
- Well that was my next question.
So videos in the article is fine.
We are not doing it,
this is what I'm picking up from you,
we're not doing it because we need it for SEO,
we're just, we're focusing on the-
- User experience
That's the most important part.
- Okay so if a video is needed or would help
we'll put it in, if not, no need.
- Exactly.
- Okay, perfect. Next thing.
So again, this is for me.
You guys are listening in on like
these are the things I want to know
if I'm going to get started.
The thing that's held me back is thinking this is
going to be so competitive that
I want the path of least resistance,
but I think it's going to take me a long
long time to get any kind of traction.
So would it be advantageous
for me to find a sub niche for me to, okay say,
well I talk about YouTube ads,
webinars, high ticket coaching
there's loads of people that do this stuff.
Should I focus on just YouTube ads to start
or should I focus on just webinars and get loads
of keywords for that and kind of carve my mini niche first?
Or articles on everything?
- So I would actually recommend go after your mini niche
and then expand into the broader niche
and then expand into the broader market.
- [Interviewer] Okay. (bell chiming)
- But the reason you want to start
with the mini niche is just go
after one area, conquer, get the traffic,
and then slowly start expanding.
You don't want to stay in the mini niche forever.
There's only so much traffic in a mini niche.
- Got it, so what would you,
of the things that I've described so far,
what would you point out as being a mini niche?
because YouTube ads, I guess is smaller
but it's still going to be a huge topic, right?
Are you saying go-
- No that could be your mini niche.
Just YouTube ads.
Or the next one could be webinars.
Your niche could be, you know, your broader
more niche could just be digital marketing as general.
- [Interviewer] I see. Okay.
- And that's not really a niche, but you get what I mean.
It's bigger market. - Yeah I understand.
So you would say YouTube ads as a topic
if I'm producing loads of articles around that
that would be a mini niche.
That would be something smaller.
- Correct, YouTube ads, to specify,
we're talking about YouTube ads
here for coaching related stuff.
Not just YouTube ads.
- Got it. Okay that's actually helpful for me to know.
So I wouldn't be trying to put articles together,
talking about YouTube ads for anyone and everyone
and explaining how YouTube ads work in the broader sense.
- You may do some generic articles like that
but the majority would be targeted toward your audience.
- Okay. Very good.
So perhaps you wouldn't mind spitballing with me
what would be perhaps an example
of a primary keyword I might look
for to get started with this?
Like what kind of things come to mind for you?
If I'm going to teach YouTube ads to coaches
I'm going to produce a bunch of articles
what kind of stuff comes to mind?
- How to run ads for coaching.
- [Interviewer] Okay.
- Something like that. (interviewer laughs)
- [Interviewer] Yeah. Got it.
And then just put that back into the-
- How, how to sell coaching online.
You can talk about using webinars
to sell coaching online, stuff like that.
- [Interviewer] So that feels and sounds
so competitive to me, so it's still-
- It's not that competitive.
Competitive is like credit cards.
- [Interviewer] Okay.
Then maybe I just have a limiting belief over this
that this is going to be harder than perhaps it actually is.
- It's not that hard. It just takes time.
The reason most people don't do it
is because of the time factor.
Takes a year plus to really get good results.
- Got it, I'm so tempted to ask you
about the expectations now
but I'm going to save it to you later.
We'll finish up with that.
What I would like to ask you now is we've
got our primary sites adclients.com.
Many of the people watching will know that.
We've had that site on WordPress for quite some time.
We've actually just moved it off.
We feel we have three options
for our site that we will be producing content
and doing a lot of this stuff.
The first option is that we use adclients.com
that has very little domain authority,
has not been taken care
of but has been around for a long time.
And it's what our clients know.
Second option is, we start from complete scratch.
- Nope. What's the next one?
- Okay, perfect. (laughs)
Third option is that I go and buy a site that has a bit
more domain authority with a name that I like
and if I'll add one more thing in,
- But you're already known for adclient,
so I would just use that
and just build up the authority over time.
- Would you really?
- Yeah.
- Now, okay, so we've moved it off
of WordPress onto a software that we've built.
It's called Funneller.
It's a, it's a sales funnel builder
but it handles their websites too.
So preferably, we don't want to go back
to WordPress because we want to have our site all in one.
What merit is there now in being on WordPress for SEO?
Or would you say we will be fine actually
on our own platform?
- Almost all platforms are pretty SEO compatible.
They're not all but majority are.
So I wouldn't worry too much about the platform.
I would more so worry about the experience and the content.
Doesn't matter if you're on WordPress or your own platform.
If your content sucks, it sucks.
If it's great, it's great.
- So, but is there any merit in WordPress-
like if I put the same article on a site that's not
on WordPress and one that is my understanding-
- Well it's not about WordPress or not,
it's about did you do all the other stuff
like optimize your site for SEO
and fix the errors and improve the load time
and assuming you did all the other stuff
it doesn't matter if you're on WordPress or not.
If you're on WordPress you can still have the same issues.
If you're not on WordPress
you can still have the same issues.
- Yep. So what if I fixed everything to perfection?
- You're fine. Yeah.
- WordPress wouldn't give me an advantage?
Because you're giving me a paradigm shift right now
because I've had it locked and ingrained
in my brain that a blog or a site producing content
on WordPress will just rank higher.
- No, that's a misconception.
- Okay. Can you talk me through that a little bit more?
because I need to truly believe that.
because what I've heard is that
there's so much authority on WordPress
that that is the place.
- No authority on the internet
is how many people know your brand
talk about it, linked to it, et cetera.
WordPress is just a platform.
Just like if someone used your platform
it doesn't mean that they're going to rank higher.
It's just a platform.
You got to optimize it
create amazing experience, create amazing content.
You're either going to rank or you're not going to rank.
Has nothing to do with the platform
assuming you fix all the other basic stuff.
- So with that in mind, one more thing to add in.
If I wanted to create a blog that is
where I'm producing all this content,
but I would like it to be a standalone
sellable asset later on down the line, which I actually do.
I see benefit in that.
I see the content I produce
at the moment benefiting our coaching company.
But I also see a time where perhaps 5, 6, 7 years
down the line, the blog
as a standalone item is very valuable.
And if it's faceless and nameless
as we spoke about yesterday on stage, you know,
I might get a better price for it, right?
So with that in mind, would I still start blogging
from adclients or would I buy and acquire-
- No still adclients.
- Really? Okay.
Over something like, you know,
I see social media examiner and sites like that where it's-
- That's fine too
but people already know you've had clients
so might as well use what they already know you for.
Why build a brand from scratch when you already have one?
- Yeah okay. That's really good point.
So then I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
The actual domain name itself then,
having certain keywords or a relevant topic
in it I'm hearing is not really that important?
- No, it used to be more important but not as much anymore.
- Okay.
- Wikipedia rings for a lot of stuff.
The domain Wikipedia doesn't have tons of keywords in it.
- [Interviewer] That's true.
- The URL may, that's fine.
You naturally may put keywords in a url
but the domain doesn't have to have keywords.
- So you mentioned something yesterday on stage
about Wikipedia, which I'd love for you to repeat
for my viewers here.
You talked about updating content.
Would you mind sharing that?
- The reason Wikipedia ranks
for almost everything is they update content.
It's like, if I give you Apple that's three years old
would you want to eat it?
- [Interviewer] No thank you.
- Exactly so with your content
people don't want to read three, four, five year old content.
They want to read refresh content that's up
to date doesn't mean the three year old content's bad.
Just update it every few times a year.
So that way it's fresh
and up to date and relevant for people.
Great example is if you read a article around Covid 19,
we all know it exists now.
Right? It's not a myth.
If the article was two years old
you think it would be as relevant
as something that was written today about Covid 19?
- No
- Exactly. No one wants to read old articles.
- Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
So many people in the room, I saw the jaws were dropping
and to you it's probably just,
that sounds obvious and simple
but to everyone in the room, it made a lot of sense.
So yeah, appreciate tip.
Okay, so to round this off then,
what are my expectations here?
Let's say I leave this interview.
I really do get with my team, I do what you've said
which I believe you said posted at least three times a week.
I'm going to perhaps use ChatGPT to help us
with a starting piece of content.
But we're going to put...
- Human time into it.
- [Interviewer] Yeah, and we stay consistent.
What am I to expect?
- You should see traffic increases
within the first few months.
You'll really start seeing your traffic grow after a year.
- So that's the part I don't like hearing,
but I know that we need to, we just,
it's part of the process, right?
- If it was that easy everyone would do it.
- No, that's right.
- That's why you guys spend probably millions
of dollars a year on ads, it's easier.
- Yeah.
- Doesn't mean ads are bad.
It just means why not do both.
- So then on that train of thought, do you-
- Did you build this business overnight?
How long have you been doing it?
Long time. 10 years plus.
- Exactly.
- Yeah, so then on that train of thought
do you think I'm making a sensible decision
here which is that we have a, quite a large company,
paid ads are great for us.
We can continue doing that.
We can pivot to new platforms as they're emerging.
Should I at this point be spending all this time
now trying to get Google going?
- Yes.
- Okay. Why?
- Because there's a (beep) of money to be made from it.
You're a business owner.
You want the traffic, you want the branding,
you want the revenue, right?
- [Interviewer] Yep.
- Go for it.
Majority of the people click
on the organic results, not the paid results.
- Well, that's true.
There's also more traffic on Google than YouTube.
- So after a year or two, I've stayed really consistent
in my industry, the type of topics that we've spoken about.
What levels of traffic are realistic.
If my articles are really going to,
- I would have to look up your space.
But if you're generating a half a million dollars
in revenue a month from paid ads
there's no reason why you can't double up the business.
- Okay. Well that part's exciting.
12 months is not exciting, but doubling the business is.
Okay awesome. Any final fast track tips?
You're probably going to say no produce good content. (laughs)
There's nothing else to this.
It's really just
- Good content links, social shares, optimize your site.
But the big thing is you can't create me too content.
Everyone assumes you do what the competition does
and you'll rank.
Well the competition already ranks and it's good enough.
You got to do something better than them to beat them.
- Okay.
So then is there a tipping point
where my content is building on itself compounding
to a point where much like the example, you know,
of a a penny doubling every day for 30 days.
You know, you get halfway through,
you're 15 days in you still got-
And that's the point where you might go,
this is doing nothing-
- After a year, you really start seeing it grow.
- But an exponential curve,
as in Google wants to see a certain length of time
a certain amount of content and then they boost you.
- No, it's is not always like that.
It really is random
but it's because everyone's content quality is different.
Every industry has different competition.
There's a lot of factors.
You may build links faster than someone else.
Like again, there's just so many factors.
But typically, yes, you do see exponential results.
It really does compound from usually
for what we're seeing from years one to three.
- Okay. Years one to three.
Fine. Last question, I believe.
I think last question
I might think of another last question.
At what point would I evaluate what I'm doing
with our SEO efforts and determine we're going
in the wrong direction and we need to fix something here?
Because if it's going to take 12 months-
- You, you should be able to tell within a few months
are you getting the right type of traffic
the right type of impressions for the right keywords.
And if you're not, then you may be doing something wrong
in your schedule like picking the wrong keywords
or writing crap content.
- And so just, if you wouldn't mind giving me
I know it's going to be different for every industry
(bell chiming) but gimme perhaps a helpful benchmark
of three times a week in two months time
what am I looking for to see at least, least we're going
in the right direction, we're picking the right keywords
- More impressions.
You can log to Google Search Console
and you should see the impressions go up.
Impressions are how many people seeing your listings
on Google doesn't mean they're clicking
they're just seeing your listing.
- [Interviewer] Okay, got it.
And then after a year, we should be seeing some good-
- Good traffic. Yes.
- Wonderful. Neil, thank you so much for your time.
Really do appreciate it dude.