>>>
>>> "NEW
>>> "NEW DAY NORTHWEST" IS BACK.
BACK.
BACK. NOW
BACK. NOW FROM THE EEE TRAVEL ALCOVE
HERE IS MARGARET LARSON.
>>> WELCOME BACK.
EMBARKING ON A JOURNEY MOSTLY
ON FOOT IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF
HEART BUT FOR BEST-SELLING
AUTHOR TIMOTHY EGAN MAKING THE
PILGRIMAGE FROM ENGLAND TO ROME
FELT NECESSARY.
FELT NECESSARY. IN HIS BOOK, "A PILGRIMAGE TO
ETERNITY", HE SAID IS LOOKING
FOR ANSWER OF HIS OWN FATE,
FAITH IN SOCIETY AND ALONG THE
WAY IT WRESTLED WITH A
DEVASTATING EVENT IN HIS OWN
FAMILY.
FAMILY.
FAMILY. PLEASE WELCOME "NEW YORK TIMES"
COLUMNIST, NATIONAL BOOKLET AND
PULITZER PRIZE WINNER, TIMOTHY
EGAN.
EGAN.
EGAN. IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU.
I JUST FINISHED THE BOOK
YESTERDAY AND I LOVED IT
BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE I WENT ON
YOUR JOURNEY BUT YOU INVITE US
TO ASK OURSELVES SOME BIG
QUESTIONS AS WELL.
>>> IS A PHYSICAL JOURNEY.
>> ARE YOUR TOES OKAY ?
>> THEY FINALLY RECOVER.
MY QUOTE IS NOT OKAY.
I PULLED ONE IT WAS AWFUL.
MY BLISTERS WERE HORRIBLE.
IT WAS A TOUGH THING BUT I WAS
TRYING TO SEE THIS FABULOUS
PILGRIMAGE TRAIL WHICH DATES TO
990.
990.
990. IT
990. IT WAS ONCE THE MOST PROMINENT
PILGRIMAGE TRAIL IN THE MIDDLE
AGES AS AND WHEN MILLION PEOPLE
MADE THIS JOURNEY FROM
CANTERBURY TO ROME AND NOW IT'S
ONE OF THE PROMINENT TRAILS FOR
PILGRIMS.
PILGRIMS.
PILGRIMS. >> WHAT IS THE NAME OF IT?
>> IT'S CALLED THE VIA
FRANCIGENA.
FRANCIGENA. >> PEOPLE DID IT THEN AND
WHATEVER THEY WERE ON THEIR
FEET.
FEET.
FEET. CAN
FEET. CAN YOU IMAGINE ?
>> ONE OF THE PLACES I STOP TO
SEE WHAT THEY WERE ON THEIR
FEET, I HAD WORLD-CLASS ISSUES
AND SOLD-OUT BLISTERS.
THEY HAVE THESE BEEN SOLD
THINGS.
THINGS.
THINGS. AND THERE WAS DANGER IN EVERY
CORNER.
CORNER.
CORNER. >> AMAZING THING.
WHAT MADE YOU DO THIS ?
>> I MET A CERTAIN AGE IN MY
LIFE WHERE I WANTED TO FORCE
SOME ISSUES.
SOME ISSUES. I THINK ALL OF US ARE SPIRITUAL
HUMAN BEINGS BUT WAS STOPPED
THINKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES FOR
A WHILE.
A WHILE.
A WHILE. AFTER THE DEATH OF MY MOTHER
WHICH WAS VERY HARD AND SUDDEN.
SHE DIED FROM OF A GLIOBLASTOMA.
SHE WAS A VERY DEVOUT PERSON OF
FAITH AND I HELD HER HAND AS
SHE PASSED AWAY AND SHE SAID I
DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEXT
WORLD.
WORLD.
WORLD. IT
WORLD. IT STARTED ME THINKING ABOUT
QUESTIONS I'D STOPPED THINKING
ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME.
THAT WAS THE FIRST THING.
>> DID YOU FEEL LIKE SHE WAS
HAVING DOUBTS ABOUT HER FAITH ?
>> YES.
>> YES.
>> YES. SHE WAS HAVING DOUBTS.
A VERY DEVOUT DEVOUT PERSON ON
HER DEATHBED HAVING DOUBTS AND
IT MADE ME REALIZE I'VE BEEN
LAZY WITH MY THINKING.
WE ARE ALL SPIRITUAL BUT WE LET
THESE THINGS GO.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR
ORIENTATION IS SPIRITUALLY.
THAT WAS THE FIRST THING.
I LOVE HISTORY.
I'M A HISTORIAN.
I'VE WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT THE
DUSTBOWL AND I'M AN IRISHMAN
AND THIS IS A CHANCE TO LOOK AT
THE HISTORY OF THE FAITH OF
CHRISTIANITY BY GOING THROUGH
THIS AMAZING TRIP AND ALL THE
SHRINES WERE THESE
EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS HAPPEN.
IT KING WAS CROWNED HERE.
JOAN OF ARC SPENT THE NIGHT
HERE WHILE GETTING READY TO
TAKE ON THE ENGLISH.
ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI PERFORMED
A MIRACLE HERE.
I WANTED TO TOUCH THIS HISTORY.
THAT WAS THE SECOND THING.
AND COME TO GRIPS WITH SOME OF
THESE BIGGER QUESTIONS.
>> AS YOU ARE WRESTLING WITH
THIS YOU ARE ALSO REFLECTING ON
HOW SOCIETY IS COMING TO GRIPS
WITH THESE THINGS AND WERE
SEEING THIS HOLLOWING OUT OF
THIS HISTORY AND THIS FAITH IN
BRITAIN AND EUROPE AND TO SOME
DEGREE IN THE U.S. WHAT DID
YOU LEARN ABOUT THAT ?
>> WE REALLY ARE AT A HISTORIC
MOMENT IN TERMS OF FAITH RIGHT
NOW.
NOW.
NOW. CHRISTIANITY HAS SHAPED THE
WESTERN WORLD AS ONE HISTORIAN
SAID PROBABLY MORE THAN
ANYTHING AT ALL IN THE 2000
YEARS BUT EUROPE HAS NEVER BEEN
SO SECULAR.
SO SECULAR. HALF THE PEOPLE IN BRITAIN
RIGHT NOW DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD
BUT WHAT'S GROWING IS AFRICA
AND CHINA.
AND CHINA. CHRISTIANITY IS GROWING
ROBUSTLY, AS ARE OTHER FAITHS,
OUTSIDE OF HERE.
ONE OF MY MOTIVATIONS WAS TO
SEE GOD IN EUROPE BEFORE GOD IN
EUROPE IS GONE.
AND I WONDERED, WITH THERE COME
A TIME WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE
FABULOUS MONUMENTS AND THESE
CATHEDRALS AND THESE GREAT
SHRINES AND SAY, WHAT WAS THAT
ABOUT?
ABOUT?
ABOUT? >>
ABOUT? >> WHY ARE THEY THEIR PICK
>> STONEHENGE.
>> STONEHENGE. IT'S A MOMENT WHERE THIS FAITH
IS LITERALLY SLIPPING AWAY.
>> WE HAVE SOME PICTURES THAT
YOU TOOK ALONG THE WAY WHICH
ARE AMAZING.
ARE AMAZING. ONE OF THE STORIES YOU TOLD
ABOUT SOMETHING USEFUL INVOLVED
SHOES AND I WONDERED IF YOU
COULD TELL US ABOUT THAT.
>> YOU MEAN ABOUT THE SHOWER
SHOES?
SHOES?
SHOES? >>
SHOES? >> NOT THE SHOWER SHOES BUT THE
SHOES LEFT AS WISHES FOR
HEALING.
HEALING.
HEALING. THE SHOWER SHOES YOU HAVE TO
MENTION WHAT THAT IS NOW TOO.
>> I AM A JOURNALIST BY
PROFESSION.
PROFESSION. A SKEPTIC BY PROFESSION AND AN
IRISH CATHOLIC BY CULTURE.
I STRUGGLE WITH MY RATIONAL
SIDE AND MY EMOTIONAL SIDE AND
I WAS IN FRANCE EARLY ON THE
VIA FRANCIGENA GOING TO THESE
PLACES.
PLACES.
PLACES. I
PLACES. I WENT TO A LIBRARY THAT HELD
BOOKS CREATED BY MONKS 1000
YEARS AGO AND IT TOOK TWO YEARS
FOR ONE PERSON TO MAKE A BOOK.
I WAS STRUGGLING WITH THESE
LOGICAL ISSUES AND I GO TO THIS
CHURCH AND I SEE THIS TOMB FROM
1200 YEARS AGO.
THIS WAS THE SINK WHO WALKED
AND THERE WERE ALL THESE SHOES.
LITTLE KIDS' SHOES.
LITTLE VELCRO STRAPS.
ALL PLACED ON THIS TOMB.
HE SAID WHAT'S THAT ABOUT?
CHILDREN WHO ARE DISABLED AND
HAVE TROUBLE WALKING PUT THEIR
SHOES ON THIS TOMB IN THE HOPE
THAT SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.
AND FOR SOME OF THEM SOMETHING
DOES HAPPEN.
DOES HAPPEN. AND IT MOVED ME TO TEARS.
IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW FAITH
IS SOMETHING YOU CAN'T DEFINE
ANALOGICAL REALM.
ANALOGICAL REALM. FAITH IS SOMETHING YOU CAN
ALWAYS DEFINE ANY RATIONAL
REALM.
REALM.
REALM. MY
REALM. MY JOURNALISM SIDE AND MY
SKEPTICAL SIDE WAS PUSHED AWAY
BY THE OVERWHELMING POWER OF
PEOPLE HOPING FOR A MIRACLE BY
PUTTING THESE TINY SHOES ON
THIS CRYPT OF THIS SAINT WHO'S
BEEN DEAD FOR MORE THAN 1200
YEARS.
YEARS.
YEARS. >>
YEARS. >> AND THE CENTURIES AND
CENTURIES OF BELIEF THAT'S IN
OUR COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS.
>> IT MADE ME SHIVER.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
THINKING OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO
STARED INTO THAT OR PUT THEIR
SHOES ON THAT AND HOPE FOR
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. BY THE WAY, I LOOKED THIS UP
AND I WENT BACK TO MY RATIONAL
SIDE.
SIDE.
SIDE. 80%
SIDE. 80% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE IN
MIRACLES SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING
YOU DISMISS AS A SUPERFICIAL
THING BUT THERE'S BEEN ALL
KINDS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDIES AND
THERE IS SOMETHING THEY
CONSIDER INEXPLICABLE.
CONSIDER INEXPLICABLE. >> AND I THINK OUR LOGICAL SIDE
INVITES US TO BE OPEN TO THINGS
WE CAN'T EXPLAIN, DOESN'T IT?
WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT THERE
IS A LOT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FRENCH
LANGUAGE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
IT'S NOT A LANGUAGE.
>> I WAS MOVED BY SOMETHING
THAT SAINT AUGUSTINE SAID AND I
WAS WRESTLING WITH HIM AND
OTHERS WELL IS DOING MY
PILGRIMAGE.
PILGRIMAGE. HE SAID MIRACLES ARE NOT
NECESSARILY CONTRARY TO NATURE
BUT CONTRARY TO WHAT WE KNOW
ABOUT NATURE.
ABOUT NATURE. WHICH MADE A LOT OF SENSE.
>> YOU SHARED PART OF THE
JOURNEY WITH YOUR KIDS.
YOUR SON AND DAUGHTER AND AT
THE END WITH HER WIFE.
WHAT DID IT MEAN TO HAVE YOUR
KIDS COME WITH YOU FOR PART OF
THE ?
THE ?
THE ? >>
THE ? >> IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT.
I WAS RAISED AS AN IRISH
CATHOLIC.
CATHOLIC.
CATHOLIC. MY WIFE IS JEWISH.
WE HAVE TWO CONFLICTING --
>> A MELTING POT.
>> WE RAISED OUR KIDS AND WE
THOUGHT THEY WOULD RAISE AND
FIND THE QUESTIONS ON THE ROOM.
IT'S FASCINATING.
IT'S FASCINATING. IT MAY BE REALIZED AS A PARENT
I HAD NOT GIVEN THEM ENOUGH OF
THE SPIRITUAL CANNON SO THEY
COULD UNDERSTAND ALL THE
METAPHORS OF LIFE.
THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY
SAID SOMETHING WHEN I STARTED,
HE SAID, YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND
RELIGION, YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND
THE WORLD TODAY IF YOU DON'T
UNDERSTAND RELIGION.
UNDERSTAND RELIGION. AND IN AN EFFORT TO BE FAIR WE
DID NOT GIVE THEM ENOUGH TO
HAVE A STRUCTURAL BALANCE.
NOW, THEY ALSO KEPT ME STRAIGHT
AND CLEAN AND SLAP ME AROUND
WHEN I GOT A LITTLE TOO GOOFY
AND WE WERE OFF MESSAGE AND ALL
THAT SO IT WAS TERRIFIC.
MY DAUGHTER SPEAKS REALLY GOOD
ITALIAN SO THAT WAS HELPFUL AND
MY SON REALLY LIKES TO FIND
GREAT PLACES TO EAT AT NIGHT SO
THAT WAS HELPFUL.
>> I THOUGHT I WANTED TO TRAVEL
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM. >> THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
THINGS ABOUT THE VIA
FRANCIGENA.
FRANCIGENA. I ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO'S EVER
WANTED TO GO ON A PILGRIMAGE.
SKIP THE ONE IN SPAIN.
GO TO THE LESS KNOWN VIA
FRANCIGENA.
FRANCIGENA. NOT ONLY IS IT SPECTACULAR OR
MOVING, THE FOOD AT THE END OF
THE DAY AFTER YOU HAVE BURNED
3000 CALORIES AND YOU CAN EAT
ANYTHING AT OFF.
IT'S SO GLORIOUS AT THE END OF
THE DAY.
THE DAY.
THE DAY. I WOULD ARGUE OR DISCUSS WITH
MY DAUGHTER OR SON OR MY WIFE
OR A FELLOW PILGRIM AT THE END
OF THE DAY OVER A WONDERFUL DAY.
>> IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BOOK.
I THINK IT INVITES US TO THINK
ABOUT THINGS THAT SOMETIMES YOU
SAY IN OUR BUSY LIVES WE'VE LET
GO AND YOU MENTIONED YOU ARE A
LAPSED CATHOLIC, LAPSED BUT
LISTENING AND I THOUGHT, OH MY
GOSH, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
RELATE TO THAT.
THEY DO SO MUCH FOR COMING IN
TO TALK TO US.
LOVE IT.
LOVE IT.
LOVE IT. TIM WILL SPEAK