oh missed the GoPro by that much!
Hi it's Tod at Tod's Workshop and Tod Cutler here and I'm back with Michael Allison. So
Michael throws Javelin for team GB under 20s and I think we've established over very many
films I can't throw, Michael can. Just have a look at some of these. So you better enjoy
this one because actually this is now coming up to Michael's academic season,
not his sporting season. So you're back at Uni in a week or two aren't you? Couple weeks,
so this will be it until next year. So this one is the medieval fletched Javelin and it's
this thing here. So it's got a whopping big head on it, fletchings on the back and can be thrown
with or without a throwing string. So any Michael first impressions of this thing? Yeah I mean well
just throwing the javelin without the string I'd imagine it's going to be well in my comfort zone,
pretty similar to the pilum and to the normal Javelin but this leather strap is yeah nothing
like I've ever thrown with before so it's going to be interesting. What I would say is your standard
javelins are 800 gram aren't they, the pilum was coming in at about 12 or 1300 grams I think,
so you know significantly heavier. These are about 500 grams but before we go on because I
am making the most of Michael on this day there's going to be a bonus film at the end of this and
that bonus film is "Man Throws Rock". Now I can't promise that "Man Throws Rock" is going
to be Internet gold, but the thing is there is a good reason for this, because this was genuinely
a weapon that legionaries trained with, Roman Legionaries trained with. Anyway let's go down
the range and we'll start throwing this stuff and we're going to start throwing without the
strings on it just to get a feel for what the thing's like. So Michael take it away;
I'm guessing our Gopro's out at about 40,45 meters something like that. Yeah but bear in
mind guys today 45 mph gusts about 65 km an hour so pretty much coming that way. Anyway
Michael. Oh missed the GoPro by that much! Oh lovely! Oh just over, so we were getting there
a nice kind of casual throw I suppose 45 M. Shall we just try throwing one sort of off to
one side a little bit? Yeah Yeah I'll try like not throw it straight and see if it corrects.
So the context of these things is you see them a lot thrown by skeletons, but we ignore the
fact they are thrown by skeletons, but you see them a lot in medieval artwork involving ships
and castles: sieges that sort of thing. And my gut feeling is with the fletchings you've got
a few things going on. If you're a good javelin thrower you won't throw that as far because the
fletchings create drag, but the other thing about it is that they stabilise really quickly just
like they do with the plumbago. Let's go again see what thoughts you got on it. Right Michael what we
trying on this one? Yeah so whereas normally I'd be trying to throw these perfectly straight along
their line I'm just going to throw them a bit more like that so as I come over release like that and
see if it's going to self correct. In essence see how badly you can throw it and it still works.
Yeah, yeah. Great okay ah it sort of did that didn't it it snaked a little bit but pretty much
ended up where you were aiming at. Yeah I mean the key thing is it did go straight in the end,
it's just kind of wobbled around and probably lost of bit distance but yeah not too much, 5 meters
maybe. Next one go again okay yeah that one I did even worse and you can see you know. With this one
I might literally just go like, well literally sideways, as bad as possible. This is against
all of my nature this is. Put your training back years. All right well there we go, the last one
because of the camera angle is looking offline it's actually it's not offline, it's maybe a
meter to the left, it's just a trick of the lens. Nobody can throw that badly really. Yeah but it's
a really interesting point that, because what it means is that it can de-skill things a lot.
You know if you're in a shield wall and you're throwing these things out or whatever and your
mate is screaming there because he's had his foot chopped off and somebody behind you just gets an
arrow in the face just at the moment you're about to throw; put you off your stride a bit I think?
Yeah yeah. So de-skilling a weapon, reducing the absolute skill required is actually a good thing
to do as well as, perhaps,and this is my theory, you see them in the context of ships and things
because of the interaction of rigging and stuff like that. So now Michael what's up next? Well
we're going to put on the strap and see how it affects it. Okay so we're going to do two throws,
one with a throwing string on it one without. Basically just get your feedback how does it
feel and so things like the length of the string, the position of the string, that's all going to be
really important and we're not going to know that now on throw one. So that's what we're going to
have a look at now is developing those positions to make it throw nicely. So first off our
string. Nice so 25
centimetres. Oh that was a meter less I think. The string was in the wrong position on that one okay,
it felt I mean, I'll try again, I'll adjust it a bit. It felt like the string needs to be
further back yeah because it as it came out it sort of felt like it was... I wasn't watching.
Going getting away from me yeah? What I want is my hand in the same position it would be
normally I think and then yeah so about there. Okay seems to be good oh yeah. Okay so that was
a much much cleaner throw actually. Yeah and you can see because the one before because it
was already trying to tip back out my hand, it immediately went like that. We've got a bit of
a headwind and that's probably why it completely died, whereas that one came out nice and straight
and yeah it's gone 10 meters further. So what's up this time? So I mean we're going
to experiment with positioning of the strap and I'm just throw it a bit harder because I'm also
wondering if when I throw it harder if I'm going to want the strap in a different location. Don't
know why that would be but I have a feeling you might I feel like that might happen. Take it
away.
Lovely oh okay oh that's gone very far right, oh nice. So a good throw, clean throw, didn't buck,
only a couple of meters further though. Yeah it..... give me a few more throws, I feel like
I need to get a bit more used to it because it is, it is a bit different, especially when I'm
throwing harder. Well I think that's probably quite a good position then actually Michael.
So if I just leave you alone for half an hour, I'll get a cup of coffee, do nothing obviously,
and I'll come back and see how you do. Sure. Pick it up from there. So left you alone for a bit.
Yeah so my first thoughts are I think I found the right sort of position for this which is,
I mean I want it in my hand where I would have it without the strap so right on the balance point
I sort of have the balance point... Ah that's interesting. In the palm and then that is where
I want the strap. So it's further back than we initially thought, otherwise it just does that
straight away and then I also need to make a bit more of a conscious effort to keep and flick my
finger through, because what you're essentially getting I've realised is the javelin's left your
hand but you've still got the strap on your finger so you just do a last little push and especially
on the easy throws it just feels like you almost hold on to it longer. Yeah that's the only way
I can really describe it. I think I have another go with these see how far we can get them. We've
moved the GoPro back to about 55, 60 meters, give it a go and then we'll change strap positions,
strap lengths. Sure do that. Oh beautiful! So 3 meters wide of the GoPro, but same kind of
length. Nice but a really clean throw. Oh lovely. I think the wind caught that one a little. Yeah,
yeah. Lovely! Again same kind of distance. So you're consistently getting you know whatever
it is 55, 60 meters and intriguingly though you were just saying before that,
you feel that actually the harder you throw the less improvement that string gives you.
I on the short throws, on the easy ones it just feels like I can noticeably feel like
the javelin's left my hand and then I'm pulling it further, whereas on these ones I just don't
really get that feeling. Yeah okay that's I mean that is interesting if that is the case across
the board actually because of course you are an elite thrower in that sense and most guys
throwing these things are not going to be, it leaves the intriguing possibility to me that
actually it gives more back to intermediate throwers than it does to professionals,
yeah very good ones. So we try some different straps, I think try different strap
lengths. So we are developing a theory here which is essentially that you want to throw it from the
natural balance point and then obviously you then have a length of string. That length of string
needs to connect to the the Javelin in the right place so we'll just give that a go see how that
is. Okay so that bucked massively. Yeah it felt like the string was too long, it just felt like
I'd released it and then it as I pulled it it wasn't pulling it forward it was just pulling the
tail down and that's what made it buck. I think that that could well be what you're doing. In
fact is actually that you are as you're pulling down because I mean is doing this your hand as
you release doesn't go straight forward it comes down, so my hand's on its way down and the string
just pulled the tail down and yeah yeah. So yeah I think if it's too long it just makes it buck
interestingly I had exactly this problem trying to throw darts off a trebuchet. It was it was pulling
the back of the dart down. It's amazing how many parallels there are between these different
things. So shall we go back again and try an even shorter string? I think shorter is better,
especially when you're throwing hard. Yeah I think we're coming up with a conclusion here
aren't we? Actually we're getting somewhere. So we got three of our fletched javelins here
with different length strings on. So that one is a little bit longer than the last you threw and this
is now shorter. Right take it away. Just throw them get got feeling. I'll start with the original
one.
Oh! So this is the last of them now with the shortest of straps,
shorter than we have tried before
actually. Nice! So this time round we've got three
short straps on all three and we're just going to see how we
go.
Lovely! Oh beautiful! Yeah
beyond the GoPro. So I think against the odds actually we've come up with a conclusion because
I was expecting us to go "I kind of like this", but not really understanding the methodology.
These could be issued to a bunch of guys but the thing is they are all going to be running
on different strap lengths. What suits them. So I can't tell you what suits you, but I can tell you
about 20 cm 8 in suits Michael and about double that suits me so I don't know what that means,
but anyway I think against the odds we came up with the conclusion. So brilliant. But Michael
just going to say goodbye now but we're back for our little bonus film "Man Throws Rock". You'll
never have seen this one before. So Michael's armed with his rocks, I'm armed with my books.
So first up we got Vegetius here, Roman General and he wrote after the hey day of the Roman Empire
about training methods. Now this is really really interesting here; "so it's advisable that recruits
should be thoroughly trained at casting stones by hand or with slings." Slings we know, but this
means that Roman Legionaries are taught to throw stones as a weapon and then at the end it says,
"it often happens too that warfare is carried out in stony places." Stones are available;
teach your guys to throw them. So how heavy is a stone? Well we do know actually that there
are Roman fortifications I would imagine that Dura Europa would be one of them, where there are piles
of stones ready for the throwing, but in here "The Catapult, a history", it also talks about
it and this is the book that put me on to it and it talks about it being one Libre, Roman pound,
330 grams, that's uh, I don't know work it out in modern pounds, but about 3/4 of a pound,
something like that. So Michael you're armed with these stones, you going to have a go at our
Barbarian? Yeah let's see what damage I can do. Man Throws Rock, I've been waiting years for this.
Nice puff of dust there, that'll look great in slo-mo. I bet it
will. Hit the boss again, did it or oh yeah yeah. There we go.
Good. It's going to hurt you, but they're not really that good. I'd rather have a
plumbata if I were throwing something. Some lovely shots to the shield and to
the torso there. No face shots unfortunately Michael. No turns out I'm more accurate with
a spear than a rock apparently. Well it is your thing; it's a bit more technologically
advanced as well. So anyway Michael; pleasure. Man Throws Rock. Thank you