A YEAR-LONG STUDY BY THE MARINE CORPS INDICATES THAT GROUPS
OR UNITS THAT ARE ALL-MALE PERFORM BETTER THAN MIXED
UNITS THAT INCLUDE FEMALES.
ACCORDING TO THE STUDY ALL-MALE UNITS WERE FASTER, MORE
LETHAL AND ABLE TO EVACUATE CASUALTIES.
ALSO ALL-MALE SQUADS PERFORMED BETTER THAN MIXED GROUPS IN
69 PERCENT OF THE TASKS EVALUATED.
ALSO ALL-MALE SQUADS PERFORMED BETTER THAN MIXED GENDER
UNITS ACROSS THE BOARD.
THE MALES WERE MORE ACCURATE HITTING TARGETS, FASTER
CLIMBING OVER OBSTACLES, AND BETTER AT AVOIDING INJURIES.
>>WHO DID THE STUDY?
>> THE MARINES.
>> I BELIEVE IT.
>> I'M HAPPY THAT WES IS ON THE PANEL TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
IT WAS ONLY TWO YEARS AGO THAT THE GOVERNMENT DECIDED THAT
AS LONG AS WOMEN PASS TESTS, THEN IT THEY CAN ALSO FIGHT
ON THE FRONT LINES.
I AGREE WITH THAT DECISION AS LONG AS THEY CAN PASS THE TEST.
BUT IF TEST INDICATES THAT THEY ARE NOT PHYSICALLY ABLE TO
DO THE SAME THINGS THAT MALES CAN DO THEN THEY SHOULD NOT
BE FIGHTING ON THE FRONT LINES.
>> THIS IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE I BELIEVE
THAT ALL THOSE WOMEN WHO ARE PASSING THE MINIMUM
REQUIREMENTS, BUT THE REALITY MIGHT BE ñ
>> I'M NOT DISMISSING IT, I'M ABOUT TO AGREE WITH IT.
TAKE IT WITH SOME DEGREE OF SALT.
IT WASN'T AN INDEPENDENT GROUP.
THE MARINES DID FIGHT THIS FOR THEIR ENTIRE EXISTENCE.
>> YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THEY WERE INCENTIVIZED TO COME
UP WITH THESE RESULTS.
BUT I AM MUCH MORE LIKELY TO AGREE WITH WES.
>> THAT'S WHY I THINK THEY ARE INCENTIVIZED TO MAKE IT WORK.
>> I AM PUTTING ALL THIS OUT THERE SO PEOPLE HAVE CONTEXT.
BACK TO MY POINT WHICH IS THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU PASS THE
MINIMUM DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE GOING TO PERFORM ON
AVERAGE AS WELL AS MALES IN THE MARINES.
IF YOU HAVE WOMEN IN A CERTAIN UNIT, COULD THEY DO THE
MINIMUM?
YES.
COULD THEY BE SLOWER AND NOT DO AS WELL AS MALES?
IT'S POSSIBLE.
THAT'S WHAT THE STUDY IS INDICATING GIVEN ALL THE
CONTEXT.
>> LET ME GIVE YOU THE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT THEY FOUND.
THEY FOUND THAT ALL-MALE SQUADS, TEAMS, AND CREWS HAD A
NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE IN THEIR PERFORMANCE OF THE BASIC
COMBAT TASKS OF NEGOTIATING OBSTACLES AND
EVACUATING CASUALTIES.
FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN NEGOTIATING THE WALL OBSTACLE
MARINES THROUGH THEIR PACKS TO THE TOP OF THE WALL,
WHEREAS FEMALE MARINES REQUIRED REGULAR ASSISTANCE IN
GETTING THEIR PACKS TO THE TOP.
MY QUESTION IS DURING THE TESTING TO INDICATE WHETHER
OR NOT THEY COULD BE ELIGIBLE TO FIGHT, WHY IS IT THAT THAT
WAS NOT PART OF THE TESTING REQUIREMENT?
IF YOU CAN'T THROW YOUR PACK ON TOP OF A WALL, THEN MAYBE YOU
SHOULDN'T BE ON THE FRONT LINES?
>> WES, LET'S KICK IT OVER TO YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE SERVED.
THIS IS WHAT I DON'T GET, AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ñ
BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE IS SOME LOGIC TO THIS.
MALES PERFORM BETTER IN PHYSICAL FEATS.
BUT THIS IS A KNOWN FACT THAT ALL-MALE DIVISIONS ARE
PROBABLY GOING TO DO BETTER ON AVERAGE THAN ONE THAT IS
MIXED ON PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES.
WHAT IS THE EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
>> WHY IS ONE GOING TO DO BETTER THAN THE OTHER?
>>
BUT THE ISRAELI ARMY DOES PERFECTLY FINE WITH WOMEN IN
COMBAT.
AND SO DO MANY OTHER ARMIES.
>> I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE ISRAELI ARMY, I ONLY KNOW
ABOUT OURS.
I WILL SAY THE WOMEN WHO PASS, THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL WOMEN
THAT CAN EXCEED THE STANDARD BY FAR.
THE FACT THAT TWO WOMEN MADE IT- IT'S FUCKING HARD.
IT IS A LOT HARDER THAN THESE MARINE TRAINING CAMPS THAT
THESE PEOPLE WENT TO.
AT THE SAME TIME, IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE I WAS ONLY IN A
MIXED UNIT AS A CADET.
AS A CADET, YOU GO TO ADVANCED CAMP TRAINING WHERE THEY GRADE
YOU.
YOU ARE IN MIXED UNITS IN PLATOON AND IT'S PROBABLY LIKE,
18 TO 20 PERCENT FEMALE.
THIS IS THE OFFICER CORPS.
THESE ARE GOING TO BE THE MOST DEDICATED, PHYSICALLY FIT,
PHYSICALLY ABLE WOMEN.
NONE OF THEM FINISHED THE MARCH WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT WHEN
WE WOULD DO MARCHES.
I NEVER SAW ñ
ON THE MENTAL TASK THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS A MALE SOLDIER.
ON THE PHYSICAL TASK, A LOT OF THEM INVOLVE UPPER BODY
STRENGTH, AND WOMEN DON'T HAVE THAT.
AS A GENERAL RULE, THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT DO, BUT
THEY FOUND IN THIS STUDY THAT THE TOP 10
PERCENT OF WOMEN, PHYSICALLY, ARE ON PAR WITH THE BOTTOM
40 PERCENT OF MEN, PHYSICALLY.
PART OF IT ALSO IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE DRAFTED, HOW
ARE THEY GOING TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN?
>> IS THERE SOME PSYCHOLOGICAL REASON FOR THIS AS WELL?
IS IT THAT WOMEN WERE NOT FINISHING WITHOUT MEN
CARRYING SOMETHING, IS THAT SOME PSYCHOLOGICAL THING GOING
ON THAT WE STILL HAVE LEFT OVER BECAUSE WE ARE FAIRLY RECENT TO
THIS INTEGRATION THAT THE MEN FEEL COMPELLED TO HELP THE
WOMEN?
>>NO.
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FINISH IT.
>> SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT COULD LARGELY BE SOLVED BY
INCREASING THE STANDARDS.
THEN YOU JUST HAVE ñ
>>THEN YOU JUST WOULDN'T HAVE WOMEN.
>> YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE ENOUGH MARINES.
>> THAT IS THE BIG THING, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE PUSHING FOR
MORE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY FOUND THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING
HIGH ENOUGH QUALITY MALE APPLICANTS.
FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS THEY HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR MORE AND MORE
WOMEN TO SERVE BECAUSE SO MANY GUYS ARE JUST PHYSICALLY UNFIT.
I'M SURE YOU GUYS COVERED THE ARTICLE ABOUT OBESITY AND HOW
80 PERCENT OF AMERICAN TEENAGERS ARE NOT FIT FOR MILITARY
SERVICE.
THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CHOICES.
>> WHAT WOULD YOU DO THEN?
WOULD YOU ALLOW WOMEN IN COMBAT?
>>I DON'T KNOW.
>> ARE YOU SURE THIS TEST IS A GOOD REFLECTION OF WHAT IS
NECESSARY IN COMBAT?
>> I TRUST THEY DID IT RIGHT.
ABSOLUTELY.
IF ANYTHING, MY GUESS IS THEY WERE GAINING IT TOWARDS
FURTHER INTEGRATION OF THE SERVICE.
YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY AS A COMMANDER IS YOUR RETENTION
RATES AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ENLISTING.
YOU WANT AS MANY WOMEN AS YOU CAN WHO WANT TO BE THERE.
I WOULD PUT PEOPLE IN SOME UNITS, BUT YOU HAVE TO
INCREASE THE STANDARDS.
AND IF YOU GET TO A REAL WAR, HEAVEN FORBID, AND YOU
HAVE TO FIND PEOPLE THEN HOW DOES IT WORK?
YOU CAN'T FORCE WOMEN THAT DON'T WANT TO GO.
>> WOULD YOU INCREASE THE STANDARDS?
>> KEEP THE STANDARDS AS THEY ARE.
>> AND THIS IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS, IS THAT THEIR
PERFORMANCE
IS SLIGHTLY LESS ON THIS ACTIVITY?
>> YEAH.
>> THE NUMBER ONE THING I HAVE LEARNED FROM WORKING WITH
WOMEN IN THE MILITARY IS THAT THEY GENERALLY DON'T FREAK
OUT AS MUCH AS THE MEN DO.
>> REALLY?
>> THERE IS NOT AN EMOTIONAL KIND OF "FUCK YOU".
>>THAT
IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ENGAGING IN A PROCESS WHERE THEY KNOW
THERE IS GOING TO BE AN INTENSE EMOTIONAL SITUATION ANYWAY.
BUT ALSO WHERE ARE THE GUYS COMING FROM?
MOST OF THE GUYS PLAYED CONTACT SPORTS FOR SEVERAL YEARS
BEFORE THEY WENT TO MILITARY.
DO WOMEN PLAY?
DO THEY HAVE TO WEAR A BUNCH OF EQUIPMENT AND CARRY A BUNCH OF
HEAVY SHIT AROUND?
NO.
WELL, THEN THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME IN AS PREPARED AS THE GUYS.
>> LET ME RUN TWO IDEAS BY YOU.
ONE IS THAT WE ALLOW WOMEN INTO THE RANGER PROGRAM, BUT NOT INTO
THE MARINES, BECAUSE YOU MAKE IT INTO THE RANGER PROGRAM
YOU'VE PROVEN YOURSELF, WHEREAS THE MARINES THE STANDARDS
ARE LOWER SO THEN THAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE.
IS THAT CRAZY TALK?
>> JUST BECAUSE THESE WOMAN WENT TO RANGER SCHOOL DOESN'T
MEAN THEY ARE GOING TO BE A RANGER BATTALION.
MY GUESS IS THEY ARE NOT.
JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TO RANGER SCHOOL, THEY ARE STILL NOT
GOING TO BE A BATTALION.
>>
THE SECOND IDEA I HAD WAS I
WOULD RATHER HAVE EQUALITY AND I
WOULD RATHER HAVE THOSE WOMEN WHO WERE SMART AND DO WELL
ON IT RISE UP AND PROVIDE THAT ADVANTAGE TO THE MILITARY.
WE DON'T NEED THEM IN THE FRONT LINES AS MUCH, BUT I DON'T
WANT TO DISQUALIFY THEM, RIGHT?
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF WE HAVE A DRAFT AND WE ARE GOING TO A
WAR, DOES THAT CHANGE THE EQUATION?
>>YES.
YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF PEOPLE IF THERE IS A GIANT WAR ñ
AMERICA HASN'T REALLY BEEN IN A GIANT WAR FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
EVEN WORLD WAR II WE ONLY LOST 250,000 PEOPLE.
THAT IS HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY DIED IN SYRIA JUST
IN THE LAST YEAR.
IN FOUR YEARS OF WORLD WAR II WE ONLY LOST 250,000,
THAT IS NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE.
WE ONLY LOST UNDER 10,000 IN VIETNAM.
IN ALL FAIRNESS THIS WAS WITHOUT MODERN MEDICAL PROCEDURES.
>> I THINK I WOULD SUMMARIZE BY SAYING THIS, TYT IS IN
FAVOR OF SCIENCE AND ALSO RATIONAL DECISION-MAKING.
IF PEOPLE SAY THAT WOMEN SHOULD
NOT BE IN THE MILITARY, IF
IT TURNS OUT THAT YOU DO LEGITIMATE STUDIES AND THEY
ON AVERAGE DON'T DO AS WELL THEN WE SHOULD HAVE A CONVERSATION
ABOUT WHAT ROLES WOMEN SHOULD HAVE IN THE MILITARY.
>> LET ME GIVE YOU MY PERSPECTIVE ON IT FROM A
GUY WHO WAS ON MY TANK CREW.
I ASKED HIM HOW HE FELT.
HE SAID I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY GUYS WOULD WANT TO GO THERE.
BEING IN A COMBAT UNIT IS GREAT WHEN YOU ARE NOT IN COMBAT.
>> IT'S LIKE BEING CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.