﻿Mr SPEAKER: Question No 2, Andrew Little.
ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the PM: Does he stand by all his statements
regarding NZ-born Australian detainees in Australia?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (PM): That was not actually the question.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Listen, I think it was close enough, and, frankly,
that is a matter for me to attend to. I would prefer the PM to answer it.
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Yes.
Andrew Little: Does he stand by his statements on Radio NZ this morning
that he has not been told how many NZ-born Australian detainees
on Christmas Island have convictions for rape or murder?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Yes, at the time that I made that statement.
What I can say is that Minister Amy Adams’ office was today, actually,
presented by the Australian Government with a very detailed list
of the sorts of offences committed by NZers who are on Christmas Island.
It is unlikely for privacy reasons that she will be able to release that,
but I can give you a flavour of the types of people. [Interruption]
I can give the House a flavour of the types of people—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I ask the PM to resume his seat. I would have thought
that there was interest in this answer, but it is not going to be heard
if the level of interjection continues from my immediate left.
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I can give the House a flavour. Some of them are offences
that I do not even think the House would want me to read out,
but others include, for instance: indecent treatment or dealings
with a child under 16; the murder of an individual;
manslaughter of an individual; armed robbery and robbery with actual violence;
aggravated assault with weapons against their own child;
assaulting a police officer; common assault and family violence;
drug supply and possession; grievous bodily harm and weapon possession;
and stalking. That sits on the back of the information we have
from Australia that, as of 31 May 2015,
585 NZers are pending visa cancellation.
Of those, 50 are involved in rape, sex offences, or child sex offences.
[MEMBERS SHOUT]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order!
Supplementary question, Andrew Little.
Andrew Little: Given that of the 199 detainees on Christmas Island,
roughly 130 have convictions for offences
such as prison for cannabis supply and a fifth conviction for shoplifting—
in this case worth $1,300—and that the vast majority are of sentences
at the low end of the scale, how does he justify
his disgraceful statements in the House yesterday?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Because they have the advantage of being true.
[MEMBERS SHOUT]
I do not know where the member gets his information,
but we have the information by name, by offence—I can read them out again
if the member wants. But let me quote from the Minister of Immigration
in Australia, who gave an interview to the Australian media yesterday
and said about the detainees on Christmas Island:
“It is a hardened criminal population
"that occupies the immigration detention centre on Christmas Island.
"They are people whose risk profile is based not just on conviction
"but on their activity within detention, or within the community as well.
"It may be that they’ve threatened officers or they’ve carried out acts
"against other detainees. There are a number of reasons why they’re there.
"The vast majority of people within the Christmas Island Detention Centre
"are serious criminals.”
Andrew Little: Given that most of the detainees are people
who have lived virtually all their lives in Australia, why should NZ
shoulder responsibility for these people? [Interruption]
Why doesn’t he stand up for what is right, pick up the phone
and talk to Malcolm Turnbull?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Because we have a legal obligation to take them back to NZ,
but let us just understand this one point: if you were a NZer
who went to Australia prior to 2001, as a resident you had a pathway to citizenship,
which would mean that if you gained that citizenship,
you could not be deported to NZ.
One Government and one person stopped that. It is called the Labour Government
and Helen Clark—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption]
Order!
Andrew Little: Does he accept that, for the majority of NZ-born detainees
whose offending is at the lower end of the scale,
their best chance of rehabilitation is to stay close to their families
and the community they know, which is in Australia?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly, from the information that I have,
the 585 NZers, as of 31 May 2015—
Dr David Clark: Answer the question.
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well, just allow me to and I am happy to do it for you, mate.
OK. So of the 585, as of 31 May 2015, here are the sorts of characterisations:
murder, 22; child sex offenders, 34; rape, 16—
Andrew Little: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did not ask
for the statistics, which are being massaged by the PM. I asked him:
does he accept that for people in the circumstances I described
it is better for them to stay in Australia than come here?
Mr SPEAKER: As I—
Hon Annette King: Just answer the question.
Mr SPEAKER: No. I do not need assistance. [Interruption]
No. I do not need assistance from the PM. As I recall the question,
it was: accepting that the majority are there on relatively minor convictions,
does he not accept the best chance of rehabilitation is by remaining in Australia?
The PM is rebutting part of that by saying that he does not feel
that many of them are there on minor convictions. That—
Andrew Little: He’s not giving us the proportion—misleading.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! No. Listen. My job here is to adjudicate
as to whether the question has been addressed. On that occasion
the question has been addressed—I accept, not to the satisfaction of the member.
The way forward then is further supplementary questions. Andrew—
Rt Hon John Key: Mr Speaker, I just want to carry on my answer.
Mr SPEAKER: No, well, I have heard enough.
Hon Annette King: He’s making it up.
Mr SPEAKER: No. Order! [Interruption] The PM will resume his seat.
The answer has been given.
Andrew Little: Why did his Government take no action
in December 2014 when he was first told Australia was going to deport
hundreds of NZ-born Australians for committing lower-level crimes
such as shoplifting and driving offences? No, Bill will not have the answer.
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The Minister of Justice informs me the direction
was signed on 22 December, at the first available meeting I had
with the PM of Australia, Tony Abbott.
We did that in the bilateral in February. We have continued
to have those discussions the whole way through.
The Ministers of Justice and Immigration have talked their way through.
We have been working through the memorandum of understanding.
When the Opposition says the Government has done nothing,
let us get a few facts right. We have got an assurance
from the Australian Government that deportees can be sent to NZ
and have their assessment done for their appeal in NZ.
We have doubled the resources there. We have added the extra resources there.
We have made sure there is a memorandum of understanding.
We have made a significant number of representations.
Actually, the Leader of the Opposition met—
Mr SPEAKER: Order! No, the answer is now going on too long.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can the PM tell us what his response is
to former National Government Minister Hugh Templeton’s call for him to display
some leadership and statesmanship on this matter?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The member will appreciate Hugh Templeton
goes a long way back in the NZ Parliament and I was not here then,
so maybe he would like to remind me of the context of it all.
[MEMBERS SHOUT]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Supplementary question, Andrew Little.
Andrew Little: Why has he said that NZ-born Australians detained in Australia
at the completion of their sentences are free to return at any time,
but now says that he has not even got the legislation ready
to manage their return and it can take up to 20 weeks
for them to get here anyway?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly, I have never said it could take up to 20 weeks.
The member has said that, and it is not correct.
Mr Dutton confirmed once again last night—yesterday—
that they can come within 2 weeks if they are at the absolute worst end of things.
The legislation is going to be ready in the House next week.
I hope the members vote for it.
Mr SPEAKER: Question No 3, Paul Foster-Bell.
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