K:No, what is the state of such a mind that is completely attentive?
F:It is free of the stream.
K:No, that we've finished with.
R:That stream is dry now, don't talk about it! (Laughter)
It is desert now! (Laughs)
K:I am asking what is the quality of the mind that is so supremely attentive?
F:Compassionate.
K:You see it has no quality, no centre, and having no centre no border.
And this is an actuality, you can't just imagine this.
That means has one ever given such complete attention to sorrow?
X:Is there any object in that attention?
K:Of course not.
R:Object in the sense of...? K:Subject and object.
R:Subject and object, yes, yes. K:Obviously not.
Because there is no division.
You try it, do it, sir, once do it.
X:I mean not merely physical object...
...but any phenomenal object such as any object, such as sorrow, or all those.
K:Give complete attention, if you can.
Say for instance, I tell you meditation is the meditator.
R:That is right.
There is no meditator. K:Wait, wait, wait!
I say, meditation is the meditator.
Give your complete attention to that, and see what happens.
That's a statement you hear.
You don't make an abstraction of it into an idea...
...but you just hear that statement.
It has a quality of truth...
...it has a quality of great beauty, it has a sense of absoluteness about it.
Now give your whole attention to it and see what happens.
R:I think Buddhist meditation, satipatthana, is that.
K:I don't know, sir.
R:Yes. I know satipatthana.
K:I'll accept your word for it, but I don't know.
R:Yes.
And I think it will not be misleading to accept my opinion of satipatthana.
K:No, no. (Laughter)
I'm not saying it's misleading or... I don't know.
R:Satipatthana is that.
Real satipatthana meditation is that.
Now if you ask people who practise it...
...and there are many meditation centres, I openly say they are misleading.
K:Nonsense, of course they are nonsense.
R:I have openly written it. K:Yes, sir, that is nonsense.
R:Yes because when you ask how it happens...
...I said that presupposes a method, a technique.
K:No, I am asking, can one give such attention?
R:You are asking whether it is possible?
K:Yes, is it possible and will you give such attention...
...not you, sir, I am asking the question.
Which means do we ever attend.
F:Sir, when you say can one attend... K:Will you attend.
Put it an way. F:That's it.
That makes it... K:Of course.
Not exercising will to attend. F:No, no, no. Quite.
K:Will you...you know, do it!
F:Spontaneously and naturally.
K:If that attention is not there truth cannot exist.
R:Rather I don't think it is appropriate to say truth cannot exist.
Truth exists, truth cannot be seen.
K:Ah, I don't know.
You say truth exists but I don't know.
R:Yes, that doesn't mean truth does not exist.
K:Ah, I don't know, I said. R:That is correct.
K:I mean Jesus said, 'Father in heaven'.
I don't know the father. R:(Laughs) Yes, that is true.
K:It may exist but I don't know, so I don't accept.
R:No, not accepting.
I don't think it is correct to say without that attention truth does not exist.
K:I said without that attention truth cannot come into being.
R:There is no truth coming into being.
K:No, of course not. R:That is also not correct.
That is wrong. K:Let me put it differently. All right.
K:Without that attention the word 'truth' has no meaning.