The former government official.
Victor Gao is director of the China
National Association
of International Studies,
and he's joining me now from Beijing
Victor Gao,
Welcome back to our program.
So we know that there have been
these unprecedented
demonstrations
which appear to have calmed
for the moment.
But but what was your reaction?
Certainly,
as a former government minister,
you know, with your
finger on the pulse when you saw
Well, first of all,
the unprecedented
protests in Beijing
and quite a few other cities
in China on Sunday night
were very alarming
because this really happened in
And for such protests
to be kind of coordinated
in different parts of China,
involving a dozen
cities,
Seoul is also truly very remarka
I think the government
need to really go to the bottom
and to the extend
that there are legitimate
concerns expressed
about excessive lockdown
measures, for example.
Then the government will need
to make sure
that remedial measures
will be taken as quickly as poss
Now, on the other hand,
I also heard some of the chants
in with political tones, which I
are completely detached
from the realities on the ground
And I personally do not support
I actually firmly oppose them.
And I
believe maintaining stability fo
China is the megatrend
is the most important thing to e
China's sustainable development.
So, Mr.
GAO, you know, there's a famous
you would say that, wouldn't you
Of course,
I understand that you oppose tho
protests calling for the removal
of Xi Jinping, calling for more
But what is the government's opt
You said that they must do somet
They must get to the bottom of i
We pose the question of what wil
the government do, given that, y
any sort of lifting
or sudden lifting of restriction
could cause a massive outbreaks.
What does the government fear mo
Thank you, Christiane.
This is a very important questio
Before answering your question,
allow me to make one brief point
Some of the protesters
were calling for human rights.
I would advise them
that actually
the most important human rights
as far as China is concerned is
the right to life.
So without life, you lose
every political rights
you may want to achieve.
Therefore, as a result of the dy
Zero Colvin policy,
China saved a minimum of 1 milli
or even up to about 10 million l
And it reached these numbers
using the U.S.
death number as a reference poin
After all,
the China's population
is more than four times larger
as that of the United States.
So whoever
who are unhappy
about the Zero Colvin policy
should be reminding themselves
of the massive amount of lives
that China has managed
to save over the past few years.
Okay. You talk. Yeah.
I just want to pick up on that
because
because clearly many people feel
Yes. Yes, you're right.
There were a lot of lives saved
compared to the US, Brazil, etc.
However,
this is three years
and they're feeling
like life is being snuffed out.
I just want to play you
the sound from a protester in Ho
He's very concerned
that he can't get back home.
Here's what he said.
I am a victim,
so I cannot go home for many yea
Like two to three years. Right.
My parents were locked down
for three months
and even relatives of my good fr
they suicide because of the lock
Right.
And I know people die because of
Because
because of the
side effects of this policy,
I think everyone who has the sam
should say something
or do something
to stop these unreasonable
social measures.
So, I mean, look, this all start
you heard what he said.
Suicides and unreasonable measur
After three years,
I remember
we're talking about three years
And that fire in Urumqi is consi
And the videos seem to suggest t
the firefighters
could not reach the fire
because of the COVID barriers
that were outside.
So if you were advising the gove
what would you say? Are.
Well, first of
all, China is right now
in the middle of a transition
from the original version
of the anti virus strategy,
which really focused on minimizi
and infections
to a new paradigm
which you need to pursue two goa
One still
is minimizing deaths and infecti
But on the other hand, equally i
if not more important,
to achieve
higher level
of normalcy of life for the peop
and restoring
economic activities
to the normal course of activiti
Both goals are very important.
We try to pursue the first goal.
For the past
three years,
now is the time to make that
big transition
into pursuing two goals now
in making this transition.
It will involve a lot of uncerta
many difficulties.
And this is exactly the time
when the whole nation in China
need to be united,
rather than accusing each other,
for example,
or even try to bring in chaos
or anarchy into China,
which is the last thing
that the majority
of the people in China want.
So I think we need to be very sc
We need to rally behind the gove
making sure that China goes
through the transition
smoothly with less cost,
with less deaths, then with less
getting infected
in this transitional period.
So then, Mr.
GAO, you said scientific,
you know, addressing this scient
one of those the main reasons.
The main way, of course, would b
vaccines is
I mean, look, I'm
just going to say, it's
generally assumed
that the Chinese vaccine
is not as good
as the
any and the other stuff
on the market elsewhere.
Why would China or not accept
the vaccines that could actually
This phase two is you're talking
And why has there been such a lo
uptake of vaccine,
particularly among the elderly?
Well, first of all,
China was one of the first count
to successfully introduce vaccin
at the very beginning of this pa
And China has ever since then
cooperated fully with W.H.O.
and shared its vaccines
with more than 100 countries
in the world.
Now, for international cooperati
more in vaccine.
I think it's a very important pa
of succeeding
against this pandemic eventually
China's policy is interesting.
It emphasizes on reciprocity,
for example, between China
and the United States
or between China
and Great Britain, for example.
We want to have reciprocity.
That is,
we mutually recognize
each other's vaccines
and we give mutual access
to each other's population
for using the vaccines on equal
If, for example, one country ref
to acknowledge
the Chinese vaccines, refuses
to allow Chinese vaccines
to be introduced
to that particular country,
China will do the same.
And in that sense,
I hope cooperation will really b
between countries
among countries,
especially between China
and Western countries,
because this is surely a good wa
really arrive at great ultimate
of mankind against this pandemic
Oh, I'm I'm hearing what you're
but as I just said,
the Chinese vaccine is just not
It's been it's
just been shown to be not as goo
Why would your government stand
on that kind of weird pride
while it is trying to save hundr
of millions of lives and open up
It needs a scientifically proven
effective vaccine.
Why would it say tit for tat
in this case?
You said the most important thin
was life.
And then, you know, the economy.
Well, first of all,
I don't
think pride is a matter
in this whole situation.
China has developed
it's all unique proprietary vacc
Cooperation with other countries
to share
other vaccines
will be very helpful to China.
I hope
this will be done on a reciproca
Okay. And on the other hand, also,
please keep in mind
the virus keeps changing
and no vaccine is perfect.
And even if you have three dosag
PO boosters after boosters, for
you may still be prone
to suffer from infections.
So I think no country
should really let down the guard
All of us need to keep
improving our all vaccines
and share information
for international cooperation
involving vaccines
I hope China is moving
in the right direction
and the more international help
there will be, the better.
Are we feeling my self and the h
I will be? For the whole Chinese
All right.
Victor GAO, thank you so much in
for joining us tonight.