This is Rummy's Corner.
Good evening boxing fans and welcome to Part 5 of the Boxing Survey Series.
This open Survey was conducted in the Classic Section of BoxingForum24.com and 24 volunteers
participated.
Each of them provided a Top 15 list for each of the traditional 8 weight classes.
Today we will be exploring the Welterweight division.
I did not personally participate in the Survey, as I did not want my opinions to influence
the final outcome.
This is the scoring system.
Pretty straightforward.
100 points for a 1st place vote, and so on according to these point values.
With 24 participants, the most points any individual boxer can accumulate in any given
weight class is 2,400.
In the event there is a tie inside the Top 10, let's quickly review the tie breaking
protocol using the Lightweight Survey for an example.
I will attempt to break any final point ties in the Top 10 by looking at these two categories.
Last time out Roberto Duran and Benny Leonard both scored 1,955, and they were both on All 24,
and the difference was Duran had ten 1st Place Votes, just one more than Leonard.
Spoiler alert, we have another tie in Top 10 at Welterweight.
So this time, let's take a quick at the Top 11 Welterweight scores from the Survey.
#11 is Floyd Mayweather Jr. 315 points for Floyd and 15 out of 24.
Mayweather was actually tied for the 10th highest point tally, but he finished 11th
because of the tie-breaking protocol.
More on Floyd in a bit.
So #10 is Barbados Joe Walcott.
He also earned 315 points, but the difference here was that Walcott appeared on 21 out of
24.
So Barbados Joe Walcott edged it out based on those 6 extra mentions.
#9 is Barney Ross.
345 points for Ross and he appeared on an impressive 23 out of 24.
So he was a more popular pick than Walcott or Mayweather, and because of that he narrowly
outpointed them.
#8 is Jack Britton.
510 points for Britton, who received 4 fewer mentions than Ross.
19 out of 24 for Britton, where he was held in higher regard on the lists where he was
mentioned.
#7 is Thomas Hearns.
The Hitman scored an impressive 602 points and he received mention on 21 out of 24.
So these are fairly typical for the type of numbers we've been seeing for 7th place finishes.
#6 is Kid Gavilan.
643 points for Kid Gavilan, and he received a Top 15 mention on 21 out of 24 Survey lists.
Not a whole lot separating him from The Hitman.
#5 is Emile Griffith.
668 points for him, and he is the first Welterweight reveal who received mention on a perfect 24
out of 24.
Additionally, Griffith also received one 1st Place Vote.
#4 is Jose Napoles, and he is the first Welterweight to enter the ranks of the 1,000+ points club.
1,027 points for Napoles and he received a mention on 23 out of 24.
Solid numbers here.
#3 - there is that man again - Henry Armstrong.
This time around Homicide Hank scored 1,208 points and he was also a perfect 24 out of
24.
Impressive stuff to be in both clubs, and even more impressive - this is the third time
Armstrong has finished in the Top 10.
He was #6 at Featherweight, #8 at Lightweight, and now here he is the #3 Welterweight.
Obviously the people in this Survey view Armstrong as a complete and total bad-ass, and not without
great reason.
Even in this Survey Henry Armstrong is an absolute legend, even when in the company
of fellow-legends.
At #2 we have Sugar Ray Leonard.
Powerhouse results for Ray Leonard here.
A staggering total of 1,725 points and a perfect 24 out of 24.
Interestingly enough, however, this is the first time in the Survey where the 2nd place
boxer did not receive a single 1st Place Vote.
And at #1 we have the great Sugar Ray Robinson.
Robinson ran away with this, and I'm sure this comes as no surprise.
Robinson had a ridiculous 2,380 points, a perfect 24 out of 24, and he also received
23 out of 24 1st Place Votes.
That represents an impeccably strong consensus.
Robinson got the maximum number of points you can possibly get without getting a perfect
score of 2,400.
He had one 2nd Place Vote to go along with those 23 1st Place Votes.
So this is the entire Top 30 statistical breakdown for the Welterweight Survey.
I think Robinson absolutely, positively deserves the top spot here.
One dissenting voice had Griffith as the greatest Welterweight.
But I believe Robinson is clearly the guy who belongs at the top, and the results still
reflect that.
I like the Top 4, although I would maybe swap Napoles and Armstrong here, but that's a nitpicking
observation.
Solid Top 4, and really the entire Top 15 - hell, even going beyond the Top 15.
Good stuff here!
Again just to nitpick a little here, but I would have shifted things around a little
between Armstrong and Hearns, and I don't think Ross would quite make my Top 10.
But this is a solid list.
In fact I think this is the greatest consensus we've had, with the possible exception of
Featherweight, and perhaps this one has even greater consensus, despite one Top 10 guy
having 19 mentions instead of 20.
One thing I will say, regarding Floyd Mayweather Jr.
I honestly believe for Floyd, with this type of survey, it's bad timing for him.
When it comes to these boxing historian buffs - and I'm probably guilty of this too - but
change tends to be slow and incremental, never sudden or radical.
Sometimes it takes the passage of time for someone to get the recognition they might
otherwise deserve.
In other words, if we did this exact same type of Survey 10 years from now, or maybe
even 20 years from now?
I think Floyd will do better here, down the line, and Pacquiao too to a lesser extent.
In time I believe Mayweather will start being held in higher esteem, and I think that will
be deservedly so.
In 50 years I bet he will be a lock for Top 5.
But right now?
He's already still right in the midst of approaching that discussion.
Personally if I had participated in this Survey, Floyd would have definitely been inside my
Top 10.
I think you can make a case for him anywhere in the bottom half of the Top 10, and I even
think you can make a strong case to have him as high as #4 or maybe even #3.
Maybe.
But I would not have him higher than Leonard, and certainly not higher than Sugar Ray Robinson.
But, what the hell do I know?
That's just my honest take on it, I think Floyd does belong inside the Welterweight
Top 10, and I think he will be duly regarded as such in due time.
But the only way to test this theory would be to conduct another Survey 10 years down the
road.
But overall I am very fond of these Welterweight results.
A lot of awesome boxers in here, and choosing a specific order is no easy business.
Thomas Hearns, Kid Gavilan, some awesome talent, and even looking down at names like Mickey
Walker, McLarnin, and Charley Burley.
Such a tremendous abundance of greatness in the long rich history of the Welterweight
division.
So in total there were 32 boxers mentioned in the Welterweight Survey.
That number is trending down.
But the 4 new members of the 1,000+ points club and the All 24 - those are very similar
to the numbers we have been seeing in other weight classes.
Sugar Ray Robinson had the high score with 2,380 points, and he also had an incredible
23 out of 24 1st Place Votes.
The fact that 23 out of 24 view him as the Welterweight King - that's as strong a consensus
as we're likely to see.
I mean, I haven't tallied any of the numbers north of Welterweight yet, but I'd be absolutely
shocked if we see anything remotely approaching these numbers again.
Sugar Ray Robinson has the high score to beat, and he also has the most 1st Place Votes.
I'm not expecting that to change, but right now Robinson has the elite scores to beat.
That's it for this one.
Next up will be the Middleweight division.
I myself have no idea what the final ranking will look like, but I sure as hell cannot
wait to find out!
Once again, a special thanks to the 24 participants who took the time and effort to create and
submit their Survey lists.
Without them this survey would not exist.
Please share your thoughts on the Welterweight results in the comment section.
Thanks for watching everyone, I hope you enjoyed, and have a wonderful night!
This is Rummy's Corner.