Do you think there's any chance that the
Kurds will give up Kirkook now or is
this going to be Kurdish territory now
forever?
Kirk Cook has long been described as a
flash point due to disputed claims of
who should be in charge of the
territory. Just a few years ago, the
Iraqi army and Kurdish Peshmerga were
involved in a standoff that almost led
to war. Now, while the Kurds control the
city, ISIS and other Sunni groups are
just south, carrying out sporadic
attacks. For now, the Kurds finally have
control of the land they've always
wanted. What is what's the historical
significance of Kirk Cook and why does
it mean so much to the Kurds to have it
under their control? Kirkook has been
the symbol of our
oppression, has been the symbol of our
deprivation, and has been the symbol of
denial of the rights of the Kurdish
people. So there have been attempts in
order to change realities on the ground
to have demographic change and our
rights were userded. Therefore Kirk cook
is important not because of the oil that
it has. All of Kurdistan we have oil and
gas. So it's not about oil and gas. It's
about the people it's about land. It's
about justice. Two years ago, I was in
Kirkook and the talk was of the standoff
with the Iraqi army and the Tigris force
and with the delayment of article 140
which would have given a vote to the
people in Kirkook to see if they wanted
to belong to the KRG. Neither one of
those things seems like it exists
anymore. Well, yes, the reality on the
ground has changed. Today's Iraq is
different from last week's Iraq. We were
waiting for a solution. Indeed, we have
been betrayed in that because that was a
constitutional commitment. A commitment
that started with TAL, transitional
administrative law, and it needed to be
implemented. We did not want to impose a
solution on the people. We wanted to
give the right to the people for the
people to make the final say in the
situation. But unfortunately, everybody
was avoiding that because they were sure
of the results. In in 2003 when the
Kurds first took Kirk Cook, the
Americans sort of made them withdraw,
asked them to withdraw. Is there any way
that the Peshmerga will withdraw now
since they've taken over again? The
Peshmergas are there to stay, to defend,
and also to protect the people and the
land. So there's no way the Kurds are
going to give up Kirkook one more time.
Why? What for? Because if the forces
which were there have thought and felt
that they were loyal to the land, they
would not have betrayed it. And you by
that you mean the Iraqi army? Of course.
Of course. An army that the Americans
have helped rebuild. They have spent
billions of dollars on that army. Very
well paid, very well equipped, but they
do not have the morale. And I want to
make sure that it's not the weapons that
make the men, it's the men who make
weapons effective. But when you have a
group like ISIS, even though it's not in
their best interest to attack the
Peshmerga, can you really trust that
there won't be fighting again in these
areas? The political landscape in Iraq
has changed. The balance of power has
changed. And now we are a neighbor to
another emerging state in Iraq. The
Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant.
Today, Iraq is not our neighbor. ISIS is
our
neighbor. So, we're in Kirkuk right now,
which even before this recent conflict
has been a flash point. It's got a mixed
population of Turkmen's, Arabs, and
Kurds. And everyone sort of laid claim
to this land. You can see behind me is
the 12th Division Army base of the Iraqi
army, and they just abandoned it
completely. So, now the Kurds have it
under control. They have the entire city
under control. And most people don't
think that they're ever going to give it
back. It's an issue of dignity here.
Iranian
control. Control.
When the Iraqi army left, did they tell
you come take our base? Did they let you
know about everything or did they just
leave and you were stuck here to fight?
after what happened in the 60s and
starting with the Arabization and after
what happened with the Americans in
2003. Do you think there's any chance
that the Kurds will give up Kirk Cook
now or is this going to be Kurdish
territory now forever?
while the Kurds might be celebrating,
minorities in the city might not be
willing to accept Kurdish rule just as
easily. We had just left the last
defensive checkpoint here in Kirk
Cookook in this part. Soon as we left,
we had an explosion. We looked back,
there was an IED that exploded, which
you can see in the background over here.
So unlike Mosul, Kirk Cook is still
really really tense. Um there reports of
IEDs coming in from all over. Uh it's
not finished here at all.