Arizona state university.
Geoff: The international
criminal court's decision to
issue an arrest warrant for
Russian president Vladimir Putin
today marks the first time in
history that the icc has
indicted a head of state from a
permanent member of the U.N.
Security council, and is the
most dramatic step taken to try
and hold Russia accountable for
the war in Ukraine.
Nick schifrin begins our
coverage.
Nick: Of all Russian crimes
committed in Ukraine -- mass
graves, cities reduced to
rubble, buildings that were
sheltering women and children
and housing families destroyed
-- the icc chose a crime that
Russia has celebrated.
At a massive pro-war rally last
month, the hosts showed off
Ukrainian children.
The stadium watched propaganda
of the children in their
hometown mariupol that was
destroyed by Russian soldiers,
and then hugging their supposed
savior, who'd helped force them
at gunpoint across the border to
Russia.
Russian TV has shown Ukrainian
children, stolen from their
homeland, receiving Russian
documents.
And it's been blessed by the
very top.
Last month, president Russian
Vladimir Putin told presidential
commissioner for children's
rights Maria lvova-belova,
Russia was saving children from
eastern Ukraine.
>> The tragedy that is happening
in donbas affects our young
children.
Unfortunately, that's true,
during the blatant aggression in
donbas against our people.
Of course, children have
suffered.
Nick: Today, the icc indicted
Putin and lvova-belova.
>> It is forbidden by
international law for occupying
powers to transfer civilians
from the territory they live in
to other territories.
Children enjoy special
protection under the Geneva
convention.
>> From some of the testimonies
and also analytical reports and
what we hear from the people,
there is an attempt to
indoctrinate those kids.
Nick: Natalia humanyuk is the
founding member of the reckoning
project.
For "Vanity fair," she and her
team documented families whose
children were kidnapped and then
returned, including yevhen
mezhevyi.
>> I put the children on the
bus, hugged and kissed them.
>> One man said he would be
returned in seven years.
People said five or seven years.
>> They asked me again, do you
want to join a foster family or
an orphanage?
Nick: Tonight, Ukrainian
president volodymyr zelenskyy
called the indictment
"Historic."
>> Separating children from
their families, depriving them
of any opportunity to contact
their relatives, throwing them
in remote regions -- all this is
an obvious state policy of
Russia.
Nick: So, could president Putin
end up being arrested and put on
trial by the international
criminal court?
David Scheffer was U.S.
Ambassador at large for crimes
issues during the Clinton
administration.
He's now a visiting senior
fellow at the council on foreign
relations.
Welcome.
A senior official in the
administration told me today
this would be the most
consequential prosecution of
international justice since the
nuremberg trials of Nazi
leaders.
Why do you think this
announcement is significant?
Nick: Bear in mind that
indicting or issuing an arrest
warrant against the head of
state is always going to be a
very significant development in
international criminal justice,
and it has been done before over
the last 30 years.
Many senior leaders, top leaders
of countries have actually been
indicted and brought to justice
before international criminal
tribunals.
Even before the icc, gaddafi of
Libya -- they were indicted
while in power, but the
consequence which is what Mr.
Putin now faces is that it does
delegitimize the individual.
Certainly as an international
pariah, but even domestically,
it starts to erode at that
person's power domestically.
I think it will be interesting
to watch how this affects the
Russian opposition within Russia
with respect to Mr. P
utin's own fate.
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caption content and accuracy.]
Which is responsible for its
caption content and accuracy.]
Nick: Do you think this could
lead to his arrest?
Nick: I do think 10, 15 years
from now, perhaps Mr. Putin will
not literally be in political
power in Russia.
At that point, his exposure is
even greater, and the
opposition, if they seize power,
they will see it to their
advantage to actually turn him
over to The Hague.
We saw that in the Balkans with
respect to Mr. Melissa.
So, yeah, it is different
stakes.
It is Russia.
It is a nuclear power.
We have to be careful on that
scale, but it is not improbable
that he would someday, may many
years from now actually face
justice.
Nick: The Kremlin responded by
pointing out it is not a
signatory to the icc, and
therefore, an arrest is Nolan
void.
What legal argument does the icc
make to arrest a head of state
that is not a signatory?
David: The state's parties to
the own statute agree that
sovereign immunity, head of
state immunity does not apply
with respect to those that are
issued, subject to arrest
warrants by the court.
In this case, Ukraine is not a
state party to the court, but
under the terms of the statute
of the icc, it has invited the
icc to actually have
jurisdiction with respect to the
Russian invasion of Ukraine and
the various atrocity crimes
related there.
There is jurisdiction for
genocide, crimes against
humanity, and war crimes.
In this case, Mr. Putin would
not have the defensive of state
-- the defense of head of
state immunity because I is an
international court.
That is not in effect before the
international criminal court.
Nick: In some ways, today's
charges narrow.
The story that aired before we
started focused on the fact it
is the deportation of children
from occupied territory.
The icc had been considering
charges against Russia for
indiscriminate bombing against
civilian targets.
What is the significance of the
icc choosing this charge?
David: This charge is actually
low hanging fruit because they
have been so transparent and
self-incriminating in Russia
about what they are doing with
the Ukrainian children.
It's self-admitted by the
leadership of Russia.
Particularly, these two
individuals who are named today
in the arrest warrants.
But, this will only be the
beginning because other crimes
such as knocking out the power
grid during the winter for the
civilian population, the missile
strikes throughout Ukraine
hitting the civilian population,
and cultural sites, etc.
All of that is to come.
This is the first of what I
would predict is a good number
of arrest warrants that would
name Putin, but also other
individuals of the leadership.
Whether it be the foreign
ministry, the defense ministry,
and the military forces at the
command level.
Nick: We will have to leave it
there.
Thank you very much.
David: Thank you.