and now to Jake Sullivan, assistant to President Biden and National
Security Advisor. I spoke with him about Al Qaeda and other international
issues in a wide ranging interview late today, beginning with Speaker
Pelosi's controversial trip to Taiwan.
Jake Sullivan. Thank you very much for joining us so much to ask
you about. Let's start with Taiwan. There are a number of China experts
who are looking at Speaker Pelosi's visit to Taiwan, and they're
saying it's not only provocative, but it's dangerous. Do you think
it is dangerous?
Well, first, Judy. Thanks for having me
Speaker. Pelosi's decision to go to Taiwan was, of course, a decision
she had every right to make. And, in fact, a speaker of the House
has previously traveled to Taiwan without incident, and members of
Congress traveled to Taiwan all of the time. It doesn't signal a
change in US policy. It doesn't threaten China in anyway, so
For China to turn around and try to turn this into some kind of crisis
or use it as a pretext to take aggressive action around Taiwan That's
on China.
From the United States has perspective. What we intend to do is indicate
to China and to the world. We're not looking to escalate.
But we will, of course, continue to assert our right to defend our
interests to support Taiwan self defense and to continue to operate
as we have operated in the Western Pacific for decades. That's how
we're approaching. And we hope that China will, in fact, take an
approach that demonstrates restraint rather than overreaction.
But this is a moment Jake Sullivan when tensions are higher than
normal, the Chinese are already saying they see it as a provocation.
They have announced stepped up military drills in the area military
training exercises. How is the U s going to respond to them?
Well, First, we have indicated over the course of the past couple
of days. What we expected China would do to include live fire drills,
potentially to include things like missile launches and scrambling
of aircraft and so forth, and, frankly, over the last 24 hours. What
we have seen has been exactly in line with what we predicted.
Our position is very clear. In all of this. We are not looking to
escalate, but we are going to continue to demonstrate that the United
States will not be deterred.
From operating as we have operated, meaning that we will continue
to assert freedom of navigation. We will continue to take steps to
support Taiwan self defense. So one of the key things that we will
do in the face of stepped up military activity by China is show that
this is not going to alter the United States is approach which is
consistent with the way that we have approached this issue for quite
some time.
We believe that shows resolve. It shows clarity, and it shows the
kind of commitment to a free and open Indo Pacific that President
Biden has spoken about since the beginning of his administration.
But do you believe the prospects for at least from miscalculation
are now higher given what the Chinese are doing and reaction and
given the fact that the U. S carrier group is now in the neighborhood?
Well from our perspective. One of the critical things that we have
to see in the hours and days ahead is open lines of communication.
We have means of communicating directly to the People's Republic
of China, and we have done so. Just as one example, our ambassador
in Beijing, Nick Burns, very seasoned diplomat has had the opportunity
to sit down with Chinese officials just in the last hours.
To hear their perspective and to be very straightforward and clear
and sharing hours in doing so we seek to avoid miscalculation or
mistake or any form of escalation. But we also seek to establish
very clearly that we are going to continue to operate as we have
operated. We think that is the best and most responsible way to deal
with the situation. We confront ourselves. We find ourselves confronted
with here. The other fact that it's been pointed out. Jake Sullivan,
is that
President Xi of China under increasing pressure right now to look
strong, with the party Congress coming and frankly, Democrats in
the United States under pressure to look strong, how much of a factor
is all that?
Well, I can't speak to President Xi and what his calculus is. I can't
speak to what President Biden's calculus is from President Biden's
perspective. We are in a significant strategic competition with China,
but competition does not and should not mean conflict.
And for that, as we were just talking about it requires us being
able to manage the relationship between the US and China effectively
in times of calm and in times of elevated tension. We are going to
be steady. We're going to be resolute. We are going to communicate
closely with our allies and partners, and we are going to communicate
directly to Beijing.
That is how we are going to defend America's national security interests
and our values. That is the only thing President Biden is thinking
about. And that is how he has directed us to operate in the days
ahead. Let me turn you now to the U. S strike on Al Zawahiri, the
leader of Al Qaeda inside Kabul, just in the last 24 to 48.
Hours. The Taliban is responding by saying what the US did as a violation
of the Doha agreement, which the US sign before it left Afghanistan.
Is it
There is a violation of the Doha agreement. It's a violation by the
Taliban. At least some senior members of the Haqqani network affiliated
with the Taliban were aware that I'm an al Zawahiri was in Kabul
and allowing him to be based. There, in our view is a violation of
the commitments they made. So the United States took
Direct and decisive action at the direction of President Biden to
remove zawarhiri from the battlefield and to send a clear message
to other terrorists and to the Taliban that the United States will
not rest will not allow for safe Haven will not allow anyone to use
Afghanistan as a launching pad for terrorist attacks against the
United States or against American interests anywhere.
We demonstrated that with this strike, and we will continue to stay
vigilant in the period ahead. You said just now and you've said,
I think several times today that the administration believes that
senior Haqqani leaders knew that Zawahiri was in Kabul. But perhaps
the Taliban didn't my question is what's the distinction here? In
that knowledge? Do you have evidence?
That there is a distinction because Siraj Haqqani, as you know, is
the interior minister for the Taliban.
Yes, I have not distinguished between the Haqqani network and the
Taliban per se, because you are totally correct that they all operate
within the same governing authority. A government of course, that
we do not at this point recognized, so they're all part of a single
entity at this time, but
We think that it is certainly possible that some senior leaders in
that entity we're not aware and others were and that that is one
of the things that is unfolding in Kabul right now, as the Haqqanis
have to explain themselves to others in the Taliban for why they
had brought Zawahiri into Kabul.
From our perspective. We're not dwelling on those specifics. We are
focused on the fact that the Taliban
As an organization is responsible for upholding its commitments,
and we will hold them accountable for doing so. And it is not merely
their word, but their actions that we are going to judge and we will
take action, decisive action if we need to to defend our interests.
That's exactly what we did this past weekend
while all this was going on the attack on and the and the killing
Of al Zawahiri. You have a very real humanitarian crisis going on
in Afghanistan, With half the population
being food insecure, we're told they're living below the poverty
level. We see pictures regularly of Children who are severely malnourished
is the Biden administration prepared to look actively at ways to
support the people of Afghanistan?
Even as the Taliban continues as it is
Well, Judy. We're not just prepared to do that. We are doing that
and have been. We are the largest humanitarian donor to Afghanistan
and in fact have supplied
a significant amount of resources to avert the worst consequences
that some experts had predicted last year would come from a humanitarian
disaster. There are people suffering all over Afghanistan.
But what we have been able to do is to a certain extent, stabilize
the floor of being able to provide life saving food, medicine and
other humanitarian assess it ease to people all across Afghanistan,
including people in areas that we could not previously reached because
they were on the other side of the battle lines with the Taliban
during the war.
We have obviously got a long way to go to get the Afghan people,
all that they deserve in terms of security in terms of their basic
level of prosperity, and we will keep working at that day by day
with the rest of the international community.
Two other quick things I want to ask you, Jake Sullivan, one has
to do with Ukraine. It's been reported that President Biden and and
you and others have implored the Chinese not to provide weapons to
the Russians. While this war with Ukraine is going on, do you know
for a fact that the Chinese have not given Russia weapons?
One can never know something like that, for an absolute fact. But
we have seen no indications to date that the Chinese government has
in fact, supplied the Russian government with
Weapons to be used on the battlefield in Ukraine that since the conversation
the president Biden had with President XI some months ago. Those
kinds of transactions have not moved forward. But of course, that's
something we need to be constantly vigilant about and we are watching
that daily
And finally I want to ask you about Saudi Arabia. The president,
of course, was there just a matter of weeks ago. It was reported
at the time when he met with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman that
the Saudis agreed to increase oil production this summer that would
alleviate oil prices. We know there are OPEC meetings coming up,
Are you How confident are you that we are going to see an increase
in production?
Well, first, I'll just say, because it's directly relevant today.
One of the other things that President Biden discussed with the Crown
Prince was extending the truce in Yemen, which had been the worst
conflict producing the worst humanitarian disaster in the world.
Today, there was an agreement to extend that truce another two months,
extending the longest period.
Uh, outside of conflict in that country in seven years, So that is
a major accomplishment coming out of the president's meetings in
Saudi Arabia, but directly to your point about energy. Let's see
what happens tomorrow. Obviously, OPEC plus has to make its own decisions
about whether or not they will increase production. We have confidence
that they will make a decision that is in line with the world's energy
needs.
And I will leave it to them to lay out exactly what they intend when
they meet tomorrow.
But you do believe they will do that. Or you're. Is that what you're
saying?
I'm saying that what I believe is that they will follow through on
their commitment to address adequate energy supply the shape of that
what that looks like I'm going to leave to them to talk through.
Jake Sullivan, President Biden's national security adviser. Thank
you very much.
Thank you.
Tonight, an administration official tells the PBS news hour that
U. S ambassador to Beijing. Nicholas Burns, who Mr Sullivan just
mentioned was in fact summoned by Beijing's Foreign Ministry to object