>> RIGHT AT THE COMPLICITY. THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, LAWRENCE.
>> APPRECIATE IT. >>> I HATE EVERYONE IN THE WHITE
HOUSE. NOW, THAT IS NOT ME TALKING.
I'M QUOTING. I'M QUOTING SOMEONE AND I'M SURE
I COULD BE QUOTING MILLIONS OF ANONYMOUS AMERICAN WHO IS SAY
THAT EVERY DAY. THERE ARE SURELY MANY AMERICAN
WHO IS SAID THAT ABOUT EVERY WHITE HOUSE BUT ACCORDING TO
RECORD HIGH DISAPPROVAL OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE TRUMP
WHITE HOUSE IT MAY BE THAT MORE PEOPLE SAID THAT ABOUT THE TRUMP
WHITE HOUSE THAN ANY PREVIOUS WHITE HOUSE.
WHAT IS HISTORIC ABOUT THIS NEW QUOTE, I HATE EVERYONE IN THE
WHITE HOUSE, IS THAT THIS IS THE VERY FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THAT
THE PERSON QUOTED SAYING THAT IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES WHO LIVES IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
IN A NEW REPORT IN "VANITY FAIR," GABE YELL SHERMAN REPORTS
THAT MANY PEOPLE SAY, QUOTE, TRUMP IS UNSTABLE, LOSING A STEP
AND UNRAVELING. THE ARTICLE HAS TWO SOURCES
QUOTING THE PRESIDENT AS SAYING I HATE EVERYONE IN THE WHITE
HOUSE. THERE ARE FEW EXCEPTIONS.
OR FEW EXCEPTIONS. BUT I HATE THEM.
GABE SHERMAN REPORTS ACCORDING TO TWO SOURCES WITH KNOWLEDGE OF
THE CONVERSATION, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST STEVE BANNON TOLD
TRUMP THAT THE RISK TO HIS PRESIDENCY WASN'T IMPEACHMENT.
BUT THE 25th AMENDMENT. THE PROVISION BY WHICH A
MAJORITY OF THE CABINET CAN VOTE TO REMOVE THE PRESIDENT.
WHEN BANNON MENTIONED THE 25th AMENDMENT, TRUMP SAID, WHAT'S
THAT? JOINING US NOW, GABE SHERMAN FOR
"VANITY FAIR." DAVID FRUM.
JASON JOHNSON AT THE ROOT.COM AND MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR AND DAVID
K. JOHNSON WHO FOUNDED THE D.C. REPORT.ORG, A NONPROFIT NEWS
ORGANIZATION THAT COVERS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
AND, GABE, I FIRST -- I THINK THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE FIRST
PROGRAM WHERE THE 25th AMENDMENT WAS DISCUSSED THIS YEAR.
AND IT SEEMS WHEN I LOOK AT -- IT'S HARD TO PINPOINT EXACTLY IN
YOUR ARTICLE WHEN THE PRESIDENT HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH
BANNON BUT IT FEELS TO ME LIKE MAYBE HE MISSED THAT NIGHT OF
WATCHING THIS SHOW WHEN WE EXPLAINED IT VERY EARLY IN HIS
PRESIDENCY. >> TOO BUSY CLEARLY WATCHING FOX
NEWS BUT, YOU KNOW, LAWRENCE, WHERE I THINK WE ARE IS AT AN
INFLECTION POINT. THE SOURCES THAT I SPOKE TO
CLOSE TO THE PRESIDENT CONCERNED THAT ABOUT HIS STABILITY.
THE CALLING THE WHITE HOUSE AN ADULT DAY CARE AND WERE ROYED
THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS PUTTING US ON A PATH TO WORLD WAR III
GAVE SOURCES AROUND THE PRESIDENT COMFORT TO COME
FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ARE TALKING ABOUT IN PRIVATE WHICH IS THAT
THIS PRESIDENT IS ERRATIC, HE'S LASHING OUT, HIS MOODS ARE DARK.
STAYS UP LATE AT NIGHT CALLING TO PEOPLE.
PEOPLE SAY HE REPEATS HIMSELF OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
RAMBLES IN CONVERSATIONS. THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE
GENERAL KELLY AND THOSE IN CHARGE OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY
ARE DOING THE BEST THAT THEY CAN TO MANAGE THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES AND I THINK THAT'S A HISTORIC PROBLEM THAT IN MY
POLITICAL LIFETIME AND I IMAGINE YOURS WE HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE.
>> THERE IS AN EXTRAORDINARY PASSAGE IN YOUR ARTICLE WHICH I
WANT TO READ WORD FOR WORD BECAUSE NOTHING LIKE IT HAS EVER
BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE. IT SAYS ONE FORMER OFFICIAL EVEN
SPECULATED THAT KELLY AND SECRETARY OF DEFENSE JAMES
MATTIS HAVE DISCUSSED WHAT THEY WOULD DO IN THE EVENT TRUMP
ORDERED A NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE. WOULD THEY TACKLE HIM?
>> YES. YOU KNOW, THAT IS A SHOCKING
STATEMENT. AND THE CONTEXT WAS -- FOR THAT
QUOTE WAS I WAS INTERVIEWING A FORMER TRUMP OFFICIAL.
I SAID, WHAT IS KEEPING GENERAL KELLY IN THE JOB?
EVERYONE AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE KNOWS THAT DONALD TRUMP AND JOHN
KELLY ARE NOT GETTING ALONG. THES A VERY CONTENTIOUS
RELATIONSHIP. AND THE SOURCE AMONG OTHERS
ECHOED HE'S STAYING IN THE JOB BECAUSE HE IS THERE FOR NATIONAL
SECURITY. AND THEY SPECULATED BECAUSE OF
THE PRESIDENT'S MOOD SWINGS AND PENCHANT TO LASH OUT THAT
GENERAL KELLY HAS SPECULATED, TALKED ABOUT WHAT WOULD THEY DO
IF THE PRESIDENT ACTUALLY DID ACT ON THESE OUTBURSTS?
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, YOU PHYSICALLY
MAY NEED TO RESTRAIN THIS MAN AND SEEMS SHOCKING BUT AT SOME
LEVEL YOU NEED TO BOIL DOWN WHAT WOULD GO DOWN IF THE PRESIDENT
DID ORDER A FIRST STRIKE. >> EVERYTHING IN YOUR REPORTING
FOR "VANITY FAIR" AND EVERYONE MUST READ CONFIRMS WHAT SENATOR
BOB CORKER HAS SAID ABOUT THE CHAOS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE
ADULT DAY CARE SITUATION THERE. DAVID FRUM, ANOTHER
EXTRAORDINARY PASSAGE HERE IN THIS ARTICLE, THIS GABE'S
ARTICLE, WHEN BANNON TELLS TRUMP ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS IS LIKELY
TO HAPPEN IN HIS FIRST TERM. ACCORDING TO A SOURCE, BANNON
HAS TOLD PEOPLE HE THINKS TRUMP HAS ONLY A 30% CHANCE OF MAKING
IT THROUGH HIS FULL TERM. DAVID, SO THAT'S WHAT SOMEONE
WHO'S BEEN INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THE PRESIDENT THINKS
OF HIS POSSIBLE COMPLETION OF A FIRST TERM.
>> WELL, BANNON ALSO ENJOYS THE PROSPECT OF CHAOS, OF COURSE.
BUT BANNON IS AT THE SAME TIME MAKING ALL OF THESE CONDITIONS
MORE LIKELY TO BEFALL THE PRESIDENT.
HE IS OUT THERE RUNNING OR PROPOSING TO RUN PRIMARY
CHALLENGERS TO REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO INCREASE THE ODDS
THAT THE REPUBLICANS LOSE THE SENATE.
ONE OF THE THING THAT IS'S STRANGE ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS
HE DOESN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND FOR BETTER OR WORSE AND MAY
DEPLORE THIS, MAY WELCOME IT, THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS ARE
HIS ONLY SHIELD. AND YET, THEY ARE THE PEOPLE
WITH WHOM HE'S MOST AT WAR. >> THERE'S A QUOTE TONIGHT IN
"THE LA TIMES" I WANT TO READ CAREFULLY THAT SUPPORTS WHAT
GABE IS REPORTING AND IT SAYS EVERY TIME IT SAYS MSNBC OR CNN
WHICH YOU KNOW HE WATCHES, THIS IS -- WHENEVER IT SAYS ON
NETWORKS, THIS IS THE ADULT, THANK GOD THEY STOPPED HIM, IT
ALL GETS TO HIM. AND, JASON JOHNSON, THAT'S
TALKING ABOUT WHEN THE PRESIDENT'S WATCHING THESE
NETWORKS, INCLUDING MSNBC AND WE ARE DOING STORIES ABOUT THESE
ADULTS IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO ARE SAVING US FROM THE CHAOS
THAT TRUMP WOULD VISIT UPON US THAT THAT REALLY GETS TO HIM.
THAT REALLY DRIVES HIM CRAZY APPARENTLY.
>> YEAH. AND IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME.
LAWRENCE, WHAT THIS BRINGS TO MIND FOR ME IS WHAT PRESIDENT
OBAMA WAS SAYING ALL THROUGHOUT CAMPAIGN 26.
THAT'S THE PAST BUT THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT AGAINST TRUMP WAS THIS
MAN LACK IT IS TEMPERAMENT AND THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO DO THIS
JOB. WE DON'T JUST SUPPORT OUR
PRESIDENT. WE WON'T JUST VOTE FOR
PRESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE SMART GUYS AND CAPTURED THE ZIT GEIST
OF THE COUNTRY BUT MEN AND MAYBE ONE DAY WOMEN THAT ARE CAPABLE
OF TAKING CRITICISM, LEARNING ON JOB AND CAPABLE OF STAYING
FOCUSED ON THE SECURITY OF THE NATION ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR
PETTY FIGHTS. THIS IS BEYOND PALACE INTRIGUE
AND DONALD TRUMP IS AN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY RISK BUT
A DOMESTIC SECURITY RISK AND MIGHT BE A GOVERNMENTAL SECURITY
RISK AND EVERYBODY SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
>> DAVID K. JOHNSTON, THERE'S A LINE IN GABE'S POINT AND AT THIS
POINT A THROWAWAY LINE WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE RESPONDED TO THE
ARTICLE TODAY, ISSUING A STATEMENT SAYING, THE
PRESIDENT'S MOOD IS GOOD. BUT WE NOW HAVE A WHITE HOUSE
PRESS OFFICE WHO MUST ISSUE STATEMENTS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S
MOOD AND THAT IS A NEW CATEGORY OF STATEMENT TO BE ISSUED BY THE
WHITE HOUSE. WE HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
>> WELL, THIS IS A WHITE HOUSE THAT, YOU KNOW, LIVES IN A
FANTASY WORLD. WHAT A TERRIBLE JOB TO HAVE TO
GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC AND TRY TO DEFEND HERE THE THINGS THAT ARE
COMING OUT ABOUT DONALD. THERE'S AN ISSUE, LAWRENCE, THAT
GABE'S PIECE BRINGS TO THE FORE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.
A LARGE NUMBER OF AMERICANS, PRINCIPALLY REPUBLICANS, BELIEVE
THAT DONALD TRUMP IS UNDER SIEGE, HE IS THEIR ECONOMIC
SAVIOR AND THEY HAVE GOT TO SOMEHOW HAVE THEIR EYES OPENED
UP TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO'S
MENTALLY UNSTABLE, HE'S TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED, A CON ARTIST IN A
POSITION TO DELIVER THE GOODS AND HE HAS NO GOODS TO DELIVER.
AND IF WE DON'T SUCCESSFULLY GET A LARGE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS TO
PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM PEOPLE LIKE CORKER,
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE REAL TROUBLE WITH DONALD TRUMP LEAVING THE
WHITE HOUSE BY THE 25th AMENDMENT, BY IMPEACHMENT, BY
ANYTHING ELSE, EVEN BY ELECTION RESULTS IN 2020.
>> I WANT TO GO TO "THE LA TIMES" REPORTING TONIGHT, TOO,
GABE. THIS IS A SUPPLEMENT.
ALLIES SEE SIGNS THAT TRUMP IS FRUSTRATED WITH KELLY.
>> YES. >> INCREASINGLY UNWILLING TO BE
MANAGED EVEN JUST A LITTLE. THE PERSON CLOSE TO THE WHITE
HOUSE SAID THAT THE TWO MEN HAD ENGAGED IN SHOUTING MATCHES IN
RECENT DAYS. >> YEAH.
THAT CLEARLY DOVETAILS WITH EVERYTHING I'M HEARING AND I
REPORTED EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT GENERAL KELLY HAS A PLAN FOR
WHEN TRUMP RETURNS TO MARLA GO AND KEEP HIM OUT OF THE DINING
ROOM. I'VE BEEN THERE.
IT'S DIFFICULT. TRUMP, THAT'S HIS HOUSE.
HE BELIEVES HE CAN GO EVERYWHERE IN THE HOUSE.
KELLY DOESN'T WANT TRUMP MINGLING AND GETTING UNSOLICITED
POLICY ADVICE FROM GUESTS AND MEMBERS.
THIS IS EMBLEMATIC OF TRYING TO MANAGE A PRESIDENT THAT DOESN'T
WANT TO BE MANAGED. >> WE HAVE REPORTS OF SEAN
HANDTY WITH MORE INFLUENCE THAN JOHN KELLY ON THE PRESIDENT
ESPECIALLY IN IMMIGRATION AND AFTER THERE WAS A DEAL STRUCK
WITH NANCY PELOSI AND CHUCK SCHUMER, SEAN HANNITY APPARENTLY
TALKED THE PRESIDENT OUT OF THAT
DEAL. >> AT THE SAME TIME, THE
PRESIDENT SEEMS TO THINK IF THEY CAN DO A DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS
THAT WILL SOMEHOW SHUT DOWN THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION AND THAT'S
ONE OF THE REASONS THEY'RE SO INTERESTED IN IT AND THAT WON'T
HAPPEN EITHER AND POSSIBLY GETTING BETTER ADVICE FROM SEAN
>> DAVID KAY, GIVE US YOUR SENSE OF TEMPERAMENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY,
GIVEN EVERYTHING REPORTED, WHERE YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP IS
TONIGHT IN THE WHITE HOUSE. >> WELL, HE'S HAD THIS NICE
MEETING TONIGHT IN HARRISBURG WHERE SEAN HANNITY THROWING HIM
SOFTBALLS. THERE WAS SOME BOOING AS I
LISTENED TO THAT BROADCAST OR A PORTION OF IT BUT DONALD IS
GOING TO BE INCREASINGLY FRUSTRATED BY THE FACT THAT HE'S
NOT -- HE KNOWS THAT HE'S NOT GETTING THE KIND OF ADORATION
THAT HE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DEPENDS ON TO FILL THIS EMPTY
VESSEL INSIDE OF HIMSELF. AND HE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
SOME WAY TO DO IT AND THIS CONCERN COMING OUT ABOUT HIM AND
NUCLEAR WEAPONS WHICH HE SAID DURING THE CAMPAIGN HE WAS GOING
TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS GOES TO THAT.
IT SHOWS YOU THE LEAKS THAT CAME FROM THE PENTAGON, TELL YOU THAT
THERE IS DEEP CONCERN THAT AS GABE REPORTS IN THIS REALLY GOOD
PIECE IN "VANITY FAIR," DONALD MAY DO SOMETHING PREEFFORTIVE.
TONIGHT HE SAID IT'S HIS ATTITUDE THAT MATTERS.
WELL, NO. IT'S CONGRESS THAT DECLARES WAR.
BUT WE SHOULD BE VERY, VERY WORRIED ABOUT HIS DETERIORATING
EMOTIONAL STATE. IT'S NOT GOOD AND SAFE FOR
ANYONE IN THE WORLD SO LONG AS DONALD TRUMP HAS ACCESS TO THE
FOOTBALL. >> AND JASON JOHNSON, IT MAY BE
HARD FOR PEOPLE TO REMEMBER BUT WHEN GENERAL JOHN KELLY WAS
COMING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN IS THAT THE LEAKING WAS GOING TO STOP.
AND THE ONLY THING THAT'S HAPPENED TO THE LEAKING IS IT'S
GOTTEN BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER.
AND WE HAVE EVEN BETTER, STRONGER LEAKED REPORTING BY
GABE SHERMAN AND OTHERS. >> OH YEAH.
THIS IS -- THIS IS GOING FROM KETCHUP BOT TOLL A GEYSER.
LEAKING ALL THE TIME. IT HAS TO.
LAWRENCE, THE MAIN REASON WHY AND THE REASON WE GET THE
EXCELLENT REPORTS AS THIS PIECE IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN
THE WHITE HOUSE WHO RECOGNIZE AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S
BEEN SORT OF WRITTEN ABOUT CONSISTENTLY, DONALD TRUMP
DOESN'T LISTEN IN MEETINGS. HE WILL NOT SIT DOWN AND
CONCENTRATE. HE WILL NOT FOCUS.
THE ONLY WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN SOMEWHAT CORRAL THE BEHAVIOR
LEAKING, GETTING SOMETHING THAT'S ON THE AIR BECAUSE IN
THOSE TWO OR THREE MINUTES ON TELEVISION THAT DONALD TRUMP
PAYS ATTENTION TO, MAYBE THAT WILL SOMEHOW CORRAL HIS BEHAVIOR
AND A PROBLEM WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WON'T LISTEN TO
HIS OWN ADVISERS. >> GABE, EXTRAORDINARY
REPORTING. THAN