JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Ohio Governor John Kasich served in public office for over three decades.
But, in his new book, "It's Up to Us," he calls on the American people to pay less attention
to the president and the dramas in Washington.
Instead, Kasich urges individual Americans to focus on the ability each one has to move
their community and the country forward.
Governor John Kasich, welcome back to the "NewsHour."
JOHN KASICH (R), Former Ohio Governor: Always great to be with you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, I do want to ask you about the book.
But I first want to ask you about the news of the day.
And you have made some news yourself.
You said today that you have now come around to the view that President Trump should be
impeached by the House of Representatives.
Why?
JOHN KASICH: Well, first of all, Judy, I thought there should have been an impeachment inquiry
from the very beginning.
In fact, I think the Democrats should have a vote in the full House on the inquiry.
It gives it credibility.
It gives it transparency.
And I think that's very important.
What was hanging me up about the call that the president made to the president of Ukraine
was, was there a quid pro quo?
And there's so much going on in this drama yesterday, with Sondland and text messages
between him and Taylor and Volker.
Those had me greatly concerned.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Different diplomats.
JOHN KASICH: Yes, all the testimonies.
But when Mulvaney said, it's absolutely true that we withheld aid until they agreed to
go back and do an investigation of the 2016 election, withholding aid from a country like
Ukraine that lives in the shadow of the -- of Russia, it's got troops on their land, there's
no excuse for that.
(CROSSTALK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, as you know, though, Mick Mulvaney said then, he said again today, hey,
there's political influence in American foreign policy.
Get over it.
In fact, the Trump campaign is now today selling T-shirts with "Get over it."
JOHN KASICH: Yes.
Well, look, it's one thing for a president to be able to pull aid from a country based
on public policy.
But it's another thing to say -- to dangle aid, vital military aid, over the head of
a nation that's fighting literally for their survival, and so -- and based on politics,
based on just, you got to go do this investigation we want.
And we don't want any president to do that.
And I don't come to this -- this is really, really hard for me.
I'm -- it's a really sad day for me.
I don't want to have to be doing this.
But when I look at it -- and I have responsibility to respond to questions.
I felt this was absolutely the right thing to do.
So I feel good about what I have said.
But I'm saddened at the same time.
JUDY WOODRUFF: As you know, though, John Kasich, President Trump said -- and he again -- he
said it again last night -- I'm unconventional.
I do things in a different way.
Why isn't he, in his words, allowed to do things in a way we have never seen before?
JOHN KASICH: Well, because there's appropriate ways in which a president should conduct himself
in office, keeping in mind that there can't be things like an abuse of power.
Everyone's held accountable.
And if the president had said, I'm not going to give any money to Ukraine because I think
there's too much corruption, well, that'd be OK with me.
But to say that, I'm going to withhold this aid until you want -- meet -- with until you
do what I want you to do politically, which is what the chief of staff said yesterday
-- and no matter how hard they try, they can't take those words back, because that demon
-- that gives us a window into the way they were thinking there.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So you're saying, if you were in the House today, you would vote for impeachment?
JOHN KASICH: I would.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Which is equivalent in criminal law to an indictment.
JOHN KASICH: Right.
JUDY WOODRUFF: It's a statement of charges.
What about convicting him, which is what the Senate would be asked...
JOHN KASICH: Well, I think I would like to see what the articles of impeachment are that
-- whatever the House comes up with.
And at the same time, Judy, I think it's important for the Democrats to try to bring Republicans
along.
And what Republicans have to ask themselves, because we are now so tribal, we're so partisan,
is it right for any president to dangle foreign aid for the survival of a country in a quid
pro quo that, you need to investigate either your political rival or some political manipulation
or political investigation?
I think the answer is no.
We have to have guardrails in which our presidents and leaders have to operate.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you ready to say he should be removed from office?
JOHN KASICH: I want the process to go forward.
For me to say impeachment, that's like as hard as it gets for me.
And that indicates, I think, there's enough there to be able to do that.
But that's the job of the Senate.
And we all have to slow down and let this process take its place.
JUDY WOODRUFF: There are so few Republicans in Congress -- in fact, virtually...
JOHN KASICH: None.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... none, who agree with you right now.
JOHN KASICH: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Why -- why so few?
JOHN KASICH: Well, again, it's tribal.
We're going to protect our guy.
And I just wish this would go away.
I mean, what has been amazing to me is, they're not even saying that that phone call was wrong.
And they won't say, of course, that you want to have an impeachment inquiry, but when the
mass majority of Americans now are saying that this is necessary, we need to get to
the bottom of it.
But you know what?
It's now.
Tomorrow is a different day.
And as more people testify, as there's more witnesses, everybody will have to judge for
themselves.
I'm not going to beat anybody else up into having the opinion I have.
It's just that -- look, it was so hard for me to vote to impeach Clinton when he was
up.
And I struggled over that, but I decided to do it.
This is not the area of government that I like to focus on, scandal and impeachment.
But we all have our responsibilities to do and say some things, even when we have to
get out of our comfort zone.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in fact, your book is about, don't focus so much on Washington.
The title is, "It's Up to Us."
You're saying the American people have the ability, they have the obligation to themselves
try to make the country better, their community better.
JOHN KASICH: Well, live a life -- yes, live a life a little bigger than themselves.
We all have certain gifts.
You have them.
The people watching have them.
And they're given to us.
And we're expected to be healers in the world.
We're not expected to be dividers.
And we need to get out of our silos.
We need to put ourselves in other people's shoes.
And we need to take care of things where we live.
And that doesn't mean that, sometimes, those actions don't result in big global things,
like Greta Thunberg, the 16-year-old girl who held a sign and created a global movement,
or those young people at Parkland in Florida who pushed gun control through the Florida
legislature.
But there's also stories in here about people.
One girl, she lives in Illinois.
She was 5 years old when Hurricane Florence was coming.
Her name was Florence.
She told her mom: "They're not going to like me, because my name is Florence, and that
storm is horrible.
I got to go get Band-Aids."
And she and her brother went around the neighborhood in a little red wagon.
And when they collected supplies, they filled the garage, and somebody took a tractor-trailer
down to North Carolina.
Now, did she change the world?
She most certainly did.
JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you say to the people who voted for Donald Trump in 2016?
There were 60-some million of them, who many of them have told us and they have told others,
I voted for him because I wanted change.
I didn't like what was going on in Washington.
I thought he was going to bring the change.
What do you say to them?
JOHN KASICH: Well, they have to look in the mirror and ask themselves honestly, did he
bring the change that he promised?
I mean, are there more steel mills?
Are there more cars being made, all those kinds of -- are there more auto plants open?
And how do I feel about the rhetoric?
This whole business of bullying, to some degree, I have had people argue in this -- who work
in schools that, somehow, bullying has become more acceptable.
It -- look, I don't like this, Judy.
I don't like to have to say these things about our president.
But when I look at it, when I look at the scale of his policies and the behavior that
divides us, something has to be done about it.
But that's not why I'm for impeachment.
I'm for impeachment because of what I think is the quid pro quo, bringing politics into
foreign aid, and putting other nations at risk.
JUDY WOODRUFF: John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio, former congressman.
The book is "It's Up to Us: Ten Little Ways We Can Bring About Big Change."
Thank you.
JOHN KASICH: It's for the young, for the middle-aged, and it's for our seniors.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you.
JOHN KASICH: Thank you.