- [Clara] For 4.5 seasons,
Hall of Fame coach Jerry Sloan,
and All-Star point guard Deron Williams
were paired up on the Utah Jazz.
On paper, Hall of Fame and All-Star,
that's a winning combination.
But paper is dumb.
These were real people
with real, extremely rigid, and demanding expectations.
And a real large ego that could not withstand any poking.
This pairing didn't lead Utah to greatness.
It led a legend to an abrupt end of his career
and a star to his gradual downfall.
(lively music)
Jerry Sloan coached the Utah Jazz from 1988 to 2011.
I'll do that math for ya, that's 23 years.
A coach has gotta be pretty good to last that long.
And yeah, okay, Jerry Sloan was more than pretty good.
He got those results in part
by being an old-fashioned hard-ass.
He enforced tucked in shirts before the league did.
And once cell phones were invented,
his players weren't allowed to use 'em on the bus.
On the court, Sloan's philosophy was straightforward,
if a bit aggressive.
He had strong opinions on offense too.
He ran simple plays that required precise execution,
what Flip Saunders called, "Meat and potatoes basketball."
Sloan was a not a fan of players improvising.
While he demanded a lot of respect from players,
it was a two-way street.
He respected them right back.
And he showed that respect by defending his players,
even if it put him in physical danger.
Like the time he tried to fight Dennis Rodman
for going after John Stockton.
Or the time he tried to fight Rasheed Wallace
for going after Thurl Bailey.
Or the time he shoved a ref for a missed out-of-bounds call.
Okay, I guess he wasn't in physical danger that time,
but, I mean, still got in a lotta trouble.
Sloan's hard-nosed, mutual-but-intense respect approach
was effective because his stars of the '80s and '90s,
Karl Malone and John Stockton,
bought into it and enforced it.
Stockton would look to Sloan for a play call
on nearly every possession.
And hey, why wouldn't he?
Running a pick-and-roll offense,
the Sloan-Stockton-Malone Jazz went to the finals twice.
Sure, sure, sure, yes, yes, yes,
they lost both times to MJ and the Bulls.
Okay, fine.
As Malone and Stockton got older
and the Jazz were in transition,
Sloan stuck by his tried-and-true coaching tactics.
In his first season without the dynamic duo,
Sloan led Utah to 42 wins.
Many thought he shoulda won Coach of the Year for that feat.
But the following year was Sloan's worst.
It was the only time his Jazz finished under 500.
There were some injuries,
but their biggest weakness was at point guard.
Good thing there were two strong point guards
in the 2005 draft,
Chris Paul and Deron Williams.
The Jazz had a gut feeling about Williams.
Although D-Will was a bit overshadowed in college,
sharing the backcourt with Dee Brown and Luther Head,
he still impressed NBA scouts 'cause in those shadows
he worked effectively to make his teammates better.
He was a pass-first-defense oriented floor general.
Hey, that sounds kind of like Stockton,
the guy who got along extremely well in Sloan's system.
Utah drafted Williams third overall.
But here's the thing everyone technically knew,
but didn't really think about at the time,
Williams was not John Stockton.
His play might have some similarities, but his attitude,
let's just say Williams wasn't necessarily gonna dive
head first under Sloan's authority.
A few days after being drafted, Williams said,
"I look forward to the challenge of taking over a team."
This didn't come across as brazen or anything.
That was the plan.
He was drafted to be the on-court leader.
But you know, just under Sloan.
And also, Williams and Sloan disagreed
on when he'd be taking that leadership role.
Sloan only played the rookie
in the second and fourth quarters.
Meaning the third overall draft pick was not a starter.
Instead, Sloan went with a guy
who couldn't cut it the previous year, Keith McLeod.
And the third overall draft pick was pretty pissed.
Which I don't think made Sloan more willing
to start Williams.
When McLeod got hurt, Williams still didn't start.
Sloan instead elevated Andre Owens, an undrafted rookie.
Guess who hated that?
It was only for one game,
and then D-Will started until McLeod was back,
but that one game was not something
Deron was willing to let go.
As he since explained on "The Ringer NBA Show."
- [Williams] And I was just so mad,
like that's, like so mad about it the whole year.
Like really, and I, I don't think I ever got over it for,
like it took me awhile to (laughs).
- [Clara] Holding a grudge helped nothing.
In January, Sloan started playing D-Will sporadically,
sometimes giving him fewer than 10 minutes a game.
Williams was probably pretty angry yet again,
but instead of showing it, he changed his attitude,
deciding to just play as hard as he could
with whatever time he got.
And he believes that that's why Sloan finally let him start.
In the '07 season, Sloan and Williams were clicking,
at least on the court.
The Jazz made a surprising playoff run all the way
to the Western Conference Finals.
This Jazz team wasn't supposed to be so good, so quickly.
There was much praise to go around.
Young Williams led this team like a vet,
and had a breakout season.
And Sloan kind of became legendary.
He'd now built two 50 plus win iterations of the Utah Jazz.
You couldn't help but wonder what did the future hold?
The finals? Rings?
Untold riches, adoration and respect?
No, just three years of being unable to get past the Lakers,
and not getting back to the Western Conference Finals.
Bit of a let down.
Individually, Deron Williams star kept rising,
but that's bittersweet when the team doesn't improve
and you still don't get along with your coach.
Not only had Williams never dropped his grudge
from his rookie year,
but the two found new stuff to argue about.
From practice schedules to the rigidity of the offense.
Williams has since described his behavior
towards Sloan as immature, actually,
D-Will put it more colorfully
on Matt Barnes' podcast, "All the Smoke."
- I was definitely a little shit at times,
a little, little prima donna.
And so I knew how Coach Sloan was
and I think I kind of poked the bear.
- [Clara] But okay, 2011 season it was time for D-Will
and Utah to get serious, breakthrough,
and be a real title contender.
The Jazz bolstered their roster building around Williams.
So let's go.
Oh, what the hell?
Utah's mid season slump led to, you guessed it,
more friction between coach and star.
At one point, Williams complained about Sloan
to teammates while Sloan was in earshot.
I'm guessing that's some of the little shit attitude
we've heard about.
And Sloan, never one to back down,
responded by asking Williams if he would like
to coach the team.
After one practice,
Williams held an impromptu players only meeting
to talk about their struggles.
And during the meeting,
Sloan was visible through the window,
watching from the stairwell, absolutely fuming.
There was a power battle going on
for control of the Utah Jazz.
After the player meeting,
Sloan and D-Will had a
"heated discussion in the GM's office."
D-Will later said this incident was when
he and Sloan's already rocky relationship took a nosedive.
And shortly thereafter,
the nosedive turned into a crash landing
that blew up the franchise.
The date was February 9th, 2011.
The Jazz were playing the Bulls at home.
Toward the end of the first half,
Sloan called one of his classic plays, Play 22.
Deron hits center, Al Jefferson, on the left block,
but D-Will thought Jefferson preferred the right block.
So he flipped the play.
Same play, just on the other side of the court.
It worked just fine, and Utah scored.
So, no big deal.
Well, this is Jerry Sloan we're talking about.
At halftime, he and Williams got
into a screaming match so intense
players thought it might turn violent.
There are a couple different accounts
of how the argument went down.
According to team owner, Greg Miller,
Sloan lit into Williams and said,
"If you're gonna break the play,
could you at least let your teammates know?"
Deron said, "My bad."
But then yelled about how he knew what was better
for the team than Sloan.
Sloan eventually said, "I don't have anything else."
And told Miller he'd like a meeting after the game.
Deron immediately said he wanted to be in that meeting too.
Sloan then asked Williams,
"Do you want me to quit right now?"
But according to Williams,
the fight went a little differently.
He said it began with Sloan again asking him if he wanted
to coach the team.
Williams responded, "You've got the power,
you've got the juice."
And then Sloan kept yelling at him while he just sat there
kind of dumbfounded.
Williams confirms Sloan asked Miller for a meeting
and Williams said he wanted to join,
causing Sloan to say he was quitting.
Then according to Williams,
just wanna make that clear,
D-Will offered to sacrifice himself.
Telling Miller to trade him instead of letting Sloan go.
- [Williams] And I was like, no, he, nope.
No, I was like just trade me.
I was like just trade me.
That didn't have to happen.
- [Clara] And then halftime ended
and Utah took the court.
Sloan and Williams didn't speak to each other
in the second half.
The Jazz lost and Sloan sent his team off
not with the usual cheer of 1, 2, 3, Team,
but instead, 1, 2, 3, good luck.
There are a couple different accounts of what happened
in that postgame meeting.
According to an anonymous source close with someone
in the meeting, Sloan was unsupported by management.
They completely sided with Williams.
GM Kevin O'Connor, someone who was actually at the meeting,
said that is absolutely not what happened.
The team was willing to do whatever it took to keep Sloan.
They gave him carte blanche to discipline Williams.
But everyone agrees on what happened
at the end of the meeting,
Sloan quit.
The team asked him to sleep on it,
but that changed nothing
except he had a good night sleep for once.
In the morning, it was official.
After 23 years, Sloan was leaving the Utah Jazz.
The guy who was so loyal to his team
he'd fight Rasheed Wallace,
just left his team with two months remaining in the season.
The league was shocked.
Karl Malone immediately came to his old coach's defense,
insisting this move was so unlike Sloan
that management must have screwed him
and sided with D-Will in the postgame meeting.
What we don't know for sure what happened in that meeting,
we soon got evidence that the GM and owner
were not completely on Deron Williams' side.
Two weeks after Sloan quit,
Williams was traded.
And right after the trade,
Raja Bell heard the Jazz GM say of Williams,
"Sometimes people get what they deserve."
For his part,
Sloan didn't seem to have the same anger as the GM.
When asked about the trade,
he merely wished all parties well
and then said he had to go rake some leaves.
Jazz fans took up the hatred torch.
When Williams returned to Salt Lake City
with the Nets about a year later,
fans booed him with all their hearts.
He did get some cheers
when he missed or committed a turnover.
Jerry Sloan eventually rejoined the Jazz
as a consultant in 2013.
Meanwhile with the Nets,
D-Will star began to fade.
He complained about his place in the offense.
And when coach Avery Johnson was fired,
D-Will was branded an ego-driven coach killer.
Two strikes and you're labeled.
Williams' career quietly petered out by 2017,
and in all that time,
he and Sloan only spoke once when they crossed paths
before a game.
But in 2018, Sloan's health was waning,
and then Jazz president, Steve Starks,
wanted to get Sloan and Williams together
for a conversation.
A possible resolution.
Williams was eager to meet with Sloan.
He was older, more mature,
and perhaps reflecting on how his career
wound down without Sloan,
he regretted his attitude and actions in Utah.
They met at Sloan's home
and D-Will apologized several times,
telling Sloan he learned more from him
than all his other coaches combined.
Sloan didn't accept his apologies
and recalled instances of D-Will being, to quote D-Will,
"A little shit, a pain in his ass."
But by the end of the conversation,
Sloan and Williams shook hands.
Which is perhaps as close as Sloan gets
to accepting apologies.
D-Will was very grateful they spoke and got some closure.
When Sloan passed away in 2020,
Williams said it would have haunted him
if they hadn't cleared the air.
Together, Sloan and D-Will showed early potential
despite butting heads.
But when that potential withered to disappointment,
all they could do was keep ramming their heads together
harder and harder.
Grudges lasted an impressively long time,
but you gotta give older D-Will some credit.
To be able to look back,
admit wrongdoing to the extent
that you're insulting yourself,
that's a long way to go for a strong willed individual
in the name of squashing beef.
(logo whooshing)
The end.
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All right, I'ma head out.
From "Secret Base," I'm Clara Morris.
Goodnight and good game.