Today marks
100 days since
the brutal Hamas attacks on Israel.
Here in the United States.
Divisions
over the war that Israel launched
that day are only growing.
Joining me now, independent Senator
Bernie Sanders of Vermont.
Senator, thanks again for joining.
We have a lot to get to.
But first, let's start
with this dramatic new escalation
in the Middle East.
President Biden's
strikes against the Iranian backed
Houthi rebels in Yemen.
Top House
progressive Congresswoman Jayapal
said the president should have gotten
and in fact needed permission
from Congress,
calling the strikes
an unacceptable violation
of the Constitution.
Do you agree with her?
Were these strikes illegal?
Well, what I do think is
the president has the right to respond
on an emergency basis.
The disruption of international shipping
brought about by the Houthis.
On the other hand,
he has got to get the Congress
immediately.
It is Congress
that has the right to declare war,
not the president of the United States.
So I hope this issue
gets the Congress immediately.
Let's talk about the war
that Israel is waging in Gaza.
You are trying to force
a vote in Congress
that would direct the US State Department
to look into whether Israel is using U.S.
equipment or assistance
to violate human rights
standards in Gaza.
The spokesman
for the National Security Council,
John Kirby,
responded to your plan, saying, quote,
We do not believe that this resolution
is the right vehicle
to address these issues,
and we don't think now is the right time.
The Israelis have indicated
they are preparing to transition
their operations
to a much lower intensity.
And we believe that
that transition will be helpful,
both in terms
of reducing civilian casualties
as well as increasing
humanitarian assistance, unquote.
What do you say to that?
I strongly disagree, Jake.
We have got to, as Americans,
take a very deep breath.
What is going on in Gaza right now
is a horrendous humanitarian catastrophe.
We're looking at 23,000 people
who have been killed,
almost 60,000 have been wounded.
And two thirds
of the people who have been killed
are women and children.
You're looking at 70%
of the housing units
in Gaza that have been destroyed.
Jake, if I use the word Dresden, Germany,
do you think about the
horrific destruction
during World War Two of that city?
What is going on in Gaza
now in three months is worse
than what took place in Dresden
over a two year period.
This is a catastrophe.
And now, according to the United Nations,
after you have 1.9 million
people displaced from their homes,
they don't have food,
they don't have water.
There are medical equipment.
They don't have fuel.
What you are looking at
is an imminent starvation.
Children are starving to death.
So my view has been from the beginning,
Israel has a right
to respond
to this horrific terrorist attack
from Hamas.
But you do not have a right
to go to war against an entire people,
women and children.
And the United States
Congress has got to act
because a lot of this destruction
is being done with military weapons
supplied by the United States of America.
And what the resolution that
I mentioned do
things about, it's consistent
with a foreign assistance act.
It says that if American military
assistance is given to any country,
Saudi Arabia, Israel, any other country,
it has got to be used consistent
with human rights,
international human rights standards
and American law.
In my opinion,
that is certainly not the case.
We have a horrific
humanitarian catastrophe.
We cannot turn our backs on it.
Congress has got to start moving
to protect
children in Palestine.
Do you think that you can get 51 votes?
Not on Tuesday night.
I don't.
I think we're making progress.
I think what we're look,
what we're trying to do is unprecedented.
This is the first time
this particular resolution has ever
been brought to the floor for a vote.
This is the first time we've ever seen,
you know, members of the Congress
beginning
to stand up at the very two Israeli aid.
So it's going to be a long, hard process.
But we got to begin somewhere.
This is the beginning.
So you have been critical
about what you call
Netanyahu is illegal,
immoral, brutal and grossly
disproportionate war, unquote.
100 days ago, of course,
on October 7th, Hamas
sent hundreds of fighters into Israel.
They took hostages.
They killed children.
They killed families. Grandparents. Yes.
What what should have been done?
How do you go after
how can the Israelis go after Hamas
if they are hiding among
the Palestinian civilians?
Well, Jake, that is a very fair question.
And as I've said a million times,
what Hamas is a disgusting
terrorist organization.
What they did is unspeakable.
And they still are holding over
100 hostages.
The situation is difficult.
It's a highly dense,
densely populated urban area.
Fighting there is very difficult,
no question about it.
This is not an easy
task to go after Hamas.
But you don't starve hundreds
of thousands of children in the process.
Israel is a very sophisticated military,
one of the most
sophisticated in the world.
It is not easy.
But you don't destroy an entire people
in the process.
I think most people would say
that is morally an acceptable.
So what do you think
they should be doing right now,
the Israelis?
Well, I think
for a start,
there has got to be
an immediate humanitarian pause.
Food, water is not getting in to Gaza
and children are going hungry
and people are facing starvation.
So the first thing that's got to happen
is there have to be a massive increase
in humanitarian aid
to fend off the famine
or it's second of all,
Israel has got to be
has got to target its attacks.
You cannot continue this vast war
of indiscriminate bombing
and now starvation
against the women and children
and innocent people of Gaza.
President Biden has caught
a lot of criticism
from the left on his support for Israel
amid this war.
You're a leader on the progressive left,
the movement that you helped create
in your presidential campaigns.
Do you think that young progressives
in the United States
will ultimately rally behind
Joe Biden in November,
or has he seriously damaged his standing?
Look, I
think
we will see what happens in November,
because the choice is pretty clear.
Running against Donald Trump,
who I suspect will be the Republican
candidate, is one of the most dangerous
political figures
in modern American history.
So I think people will end up rallying
around Biden.
But there is no question
it is very hard for young people.
I think for most Americans
to be excited
about what is going on right now.
President has got to change course.
He has been very clear.
He has expressed his concern about,
quote unquote, indiscriminate bombing.
He has asked that now
over and over again to change course.
Not now.
Just yesterday
said, no, we're going to continue
doing what we are doing.
Unacceptable.
You cannot give billions of dollars
to a country
that ignores
your wishes, violates international law.
So I would hope that
the president
follows through on his concerns
and tells them that, you know,
this is unacceptable.
You're not getting a nickel more
from the United States
unless you radically change course.
We're not going to see hundreds
and hundreds of thousands of children
starve to death.
Senator Bernie Sanders,
appreciate your time this morning.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Jake.