The United States is offering to release an arms dealer
by the name of Viktor Bout in exchange for WNBA star Griner in a prisoner swap.
Now WNBA star Brittney Griner is still unfortunately detained
in Russia after being caught with hashish oil.
The Russian government has asked for Vadim Krasikov who is
sentenced to life in prison for murdering a Chechen fighter.
They want him to be released.
But it seems that this is not something that the United States is receptive
toward.
The request was seen as problematic because this gentleman
remains in German custody, not US custody.
As such and because the request was not communicated formally but
rather through the Russian spy agency, FBS backchannel.
The US government did not view it as a legitimate counter to the US offer.
Now, there was a proposal by the Russians that the United States government
was receptive to and that's where we get into a discussion about Viktor Bout.
Now, Viktor Bout is someone who has an interesting nickname to say the least.
The Biden administration has proposed trading the merchant of death as he's
referred to, for the imprisoned basketball player as well as a former marine
held in Russia on what are considered trumped-up espionage charges.
Now, the merchant of death Viktor Bout is an infamous arms dealer
with connections to the Taliban.
By the way,
we've also armed the Taliban ourselves in order to help them defeat the Soviets.
So I think that's an important piece of context that we
should let people know about, Al Qaeda and various militant groups in Africa.
Viktor Bout a former soviet military officer was once one of the world's
most wanted men.
Accused of selling weapons to Al Qaeda, the Taliban in various governments and
militants in Rwanda, Sierra Leone, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Algeria.
The the movie Lord of War starring Nicolas Cage was released in 2005 and
was based on his case specifically.
And so, the fact that the Biden administration is open to releasing him
to the Russians in exchange for Brittney Griner and this other individual
who's been imprisoned in Russia on trumped-up charges, is controversial.
You have some people who agree with it because the idea is,
we gotta get our people back and
we should do it even if it means we have to let go of one Russian bad guy.
And then there are others like John Bolton, will get to him in just a minute,
who are like, no, I would really rethink this is a bad idea.
Mark, you had mentioned that you have some thoughts on this story.
I'm really curious where you stand on it.
>> Well, I'll try to just condense it.
Just, first of all, the jetliner view of it of course,
is that being a high profile as Brittney is, I don't know her personally, but
I like to refer to her as first name cuz it makes it seem like I do know her.
>> [LAUGH] >> But she is someone so high profile and
you feel as though she really got caught in the crosshairs,
was right before the Ukraine war started.
And you wanna bring her home.
And it's made news day after day after day.
That's a good thing and a bad thing.
The good thing about being high profile is that it gets everybody's attention.
As I say, it's on the news, it's like, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
And the White House and State Department begin to bring the cavalry in.
The problem is that by being so high profile, the demands can be so
unreasonable and Russia really gets all the leverage in this particular scenario.
But you'd rather be high profile than no profile.
There are prisoners, American prisoners all around the world,
no one knows about them, no one knows their names.
And the one thing that this deal, which hasn't come through yet,
has is, it has enough profile to get everybody's attention.
The last thing I would say is it's weird to negotiate these things so publicly
though, and it almost makes me wonder, what what this negotiation is about?
It's even been speculated publicly that if the State Department is talking
about this so openly,
that it might actually be a deal that the Russians have already declined.
And what they're trying to do, is send a message to the public saying,
hey don't worry, we're trying to get her out and
any American around the world, we the government will try to get you back.
It's a mess because obviously if you negotiate, you set the table for
more hostages to be taken and all those arguments that follow.
But she's so high profile, I'd be very surprised if the American government
doesn't come up with whatever they need to bring her home.
>> Ravana, what are your thoughts?
You mentioned your WNBA fan.
So I'm guessing you've been following this story from the beginning.
>> Yeah, I played basketball for all my life, Brittney Griner is an icon,
always looked up to her.
So like this has been, I mean for for the few the proud the WNBA fans,
this has really been huge news in the story we've been following.
But for me it's a no brainer and not just because I am a WNBA fan and
not just because Brittney Griner, someone I've always looked up to.
You make the deal, you get her back.
Because I mean at the end of the day she's a US citizen.
She's not a member of the military.
She didn't sign up for anything like this.
The charges against her are not just politically, but
obviously racially motivated as well.
It's really common even for non celebrity or
non high status individuals who are black, who go to Russia to be charged
with things related to drugs because it's systemically racist.
Just as much different ways than America is.
But they deal with the same issues in their criminal justice system.
But at the end of the day, right?
And we'll talk about John Bolton in a second.
But I just don't think that there's any validity to those arguments.
Because, again she's a United States citizen.
This is a woman, she is a friend, a wife, a family member,
a teammate basketball player doesn't matter, she's a person.
And just because as an individual, she might not have geopolitical importance,
that doesn't mean that her life is not important and
she deserves whatever it takes to get her back home.
>> Yeah I agree with you because the controversial component of the story is
that Biden administration is considering releasing the merchant of death.
And the talking point is, well this is, I mean this is an arms dealer.
He deals arms to bad guys like the US government does.
[LAUGH] >> We wanna be the only [INAUDIBLE] block
and we don't wanna have to go arrest another one.
We need to be the only arms, we want to be the merchants.
>> We just don't want any competition, we want monopolize the game, okay?
Our defense industry gets to be the ones who make the decisions about
where the arms go.
A merchant of death unacceptable.
No, but I just think if that's the argument you're gonna make,
you have to understand how weak that argument is.
It's like a house of cards when you just take a second to think about what we
engage in.
When I say we, I mean our government engages in terms of selling weapons.
I mean Biden just said that he would continue selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.
And Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship.
And they not only brutalize their own people, they can order the assassination
and dismemberment of Washington post journalist with impunity.
It's unbelievable.
So I don't buy that argument at all.
And just to make sure I cover all my basis,
that perspective is not shared by everyone.
Jeremy Bash who is an ex chief of staff at the CIA, doesn't think this is a bad idea.
We value our own citizens 1000 times more than we value the foreign criminal.
Israel takes the same approach.
They trade 1000 Hamas fighters for one IDF soldier.
I don't know how true that is, but nonetheless,
we in the United States take the same attitude.
We will do almost anything to save an American life.
It started off fine.
That comment, that quote and it it kind of ended in a bit of a disaster.
We will do almost anything to save an American life.
No, I don't think so.
I don't think that's what our government has demonstrated.
But the point remains, the point he's making here I think is a valid one
in regard to getting Brittney Griner back.
And if we have to release a bad guy to the Russians, we have to do this exchange.
Might as well just do it.
>> Yeah I think the point there is that, when it comes to prisoner exchanges,
we are willing to go probably farther than we see other sides go.
I mean, if I'm trying to Jiu Jitsu that and figure how that statement makes sense?
I guess that's what it refers to.
Typically these prisoners works and you just alluded to it.
They happen on the battlefield or they happen around some kind of military thing.
So, you're trading soldiers for soldiers type thing.
This is an odd bargaining chip that the Russians have picked up and
you have so much public sentiment in Brittney Griner's corner.
That it does appear that the US will step up with every manner of accommodation
to try to get her home.
>> We'll see how this all plays out.
But I do think one of the other reasons why Biden has decided to kind of make this
public is, he was getting a lot of heat cuz it seemed like he
wasn't doing a damn thing about it.
So, there is some positive benefit to openly talking about this cuz
at least lets the American people know, Griner has not been forgotten.