>>> WELCOME BACK TO "VELSHI AND RUHLE" A NEW OP-ED SUGGESTS RAPE
IN THE ARMY IS ONLY RAPE IF YOU
YELL, CRY, AND FIGHT ABOUT IT.
I’LL SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.
IN THE ARMY, IT’S ONLY RAPE IF
YOU YELL, CRY, AND FIGHT ABOUT
IT.
IT. A RAPE PLAYBOOK ONE MIGHT SAY.
IN HER "NEW YORK TIMES" PIECE
TITLED "SHE DIDN’T ACT LIKE A
RAPE VICTIM" ARMY VETERAN RYAN
LEE DOSTY SAYS HER REPORTED
RAPES AND THOSE OF TWO OTHER
WOMEN IN THE ARMY WERE DISMISSED
BY OFFICIALS AND SAYS A FOURTH
WOMAN KEPT QUIET ABOUT HERS
BECAUSE, QUOTE, SHE KNEW BETTER.
DOSTIE WRITES, QUOTE, OUR RAPES
WERE ON US.
THE ARMY WAS TELLING US AND
NEITHER I NOR THE SPECIALIST NOR
THE STAFF SERGEANT ACTED ENOUGH
LIKE A RAPE VICTIM.
A MANTRA OFTEN REPEATED BY THE
INVESTIGATORS IN MY OWN CASE.
IN A STATEMENT TO NBC NEWS AN
ARMY SPOKESPERSON SAID THIS.
COMMANDERS TAKE EVERY REPORT OF
SEXUAL ASSAULT, SEXUAL
HARASSMENT, AND ASSOCIATED
RETALIATORY BEHAVIOR SERIOUSLY
BY EMPLOYING A WIDE VARIETY OF
JUDICIAL, NONJUDICIAL, AND
ADVERSE ADMINISTRATION ACTIONS
TO ADDRESS THE CONDUCT FOR ALL
FOUNDED REPORTS.
FOUNDED REPORTS. SEXUAL ASSAULT IS CONTRARY TO
ARMY VALUES AND A CRITICAL
READINESS ISSUE.
READINESS ISSUE. JOINING ME NOW, THE AUTHOR OF
THAT "NEW YORK TIMES" OP-ED,
ARMY VETERAN RYAN LEE DOSTIE
ALSO THE AUTHOR OF A NEW
BOOK "FORMATION" A WOMAN’S
MEMOIR OF STEPPING OUT OF LINE.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
RAPE IN THE MILITARY.
YOU WOULD THINK THE ARMY, THERE
TO PROTECT US, IS WHERE MEMBERS
OF THE ARMY SHOULD FEEL
PROTECTED.
PROTECTED. SO, FIRST, WHEN I JUST READ THAT
STATEMENT THAT WE GOT FROM THE
ARMY, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU’VE
HEARD BEFORE?
HEARD BEFORE? IS THAT THEIR STANDARD LINE?
>> I’VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.
I’M SURE THAT IS THEIR STANDARD
LINE.
LINE. I DON’T MEAN TO SCOFF, BUT FOR
THEM TO SAY THAT THAT COMMANDERS
TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, IT -- I’M
SURE THERE ARE SOME COMMANDERS
WHO DO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND
THERE ARE PLENTY WHO DO NOT.
THAT’S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
>> THEN WHY TELL YOUR STORY NOW,
FOR THAT PROBLEM EXACTLY?
>> I WOULD LIKE TO TELL -- PART
OF THE REASON I TOLD MAY STORY
WAS FOR MYSELF.
YOU KNOW, JUST TO BE ABLE TO
TALK ABOUT IT AND GET IT OUT
THERE BUT ALSOHOPEFULLY TO HELP
OTHER MILITARY SEXUAL TRAUMA
VICTIMS SO THAT THEY FEEL LIKE
THEY CAN HAVE A VOICE AND TALK
ABOUT IT, TOO, AND THEY DON’T
HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS KIND OF
BEHAVIOR WHEN THE MILITARY,
WHATEVER BRANCH IT IS, IS
COVERING IT UP ON THEM.
>> HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
CULTURE IS.
CULTURE IS. YOU ARE TALKING -- WHY IS IT
THAT YOU CAN’T COME FORWARD
BECAUSE YOU WRITE IN YOUR PIECE
THAT THREE JUDGES ON AN ARMY
APPEALS COURT OVERTURNED A 2017
RAPE CONVICTION BECAUSE THE
ALLEGED RAPIST DIDN’T TRY TO
HIDE ANY EVIDENCE.
SO HIS BRAZENNESS AND
UNWILLINGNESS TO COVER UP IS
WHAT SET HIM FREE?
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE ARGUING,
EXACTLY.
EXACTLY. AND THE PROBLEM IS, WOMEN OR
SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIMS IN THE
MILITARY, THEY KNOW WHAT THE
REPORTING SYSTEM IS LIKE AND HOW
THEY’LL BE TREATED, WHICH IS
USUALLY WITH DERISION, THEIR
CAREERS CAN BE COMPROMISED OR
THREATENED.
THREATENED. THEY’RE CALLED A MULTITUDE OF
NAMES THAT I WON’T REPEAT.
>> BY WHOM?
>> IT CAN BE BY THE COMMANDER.
IT CAN DEFINITELY BE WITHIN THE
RANKS, OTHER SOLDIERS PASS IT ON
AMONGST EACH OTHER.
IN MY CASE, MY COMMANDER PRETTY
MUCH SAID I WAS LYING.
CALLED ME A BOLD-FACED LIAR AND
TOLD THE MEN IN THE PLATOON,
WHILE WE WERE IN A FORMATION,
THAT MEN, IF YOU DIDN’T DO
ANYTHING WRONG, DON’T WORRY
ABOUT IT IF A WOMAN REPORTS.
>> AND YOU WERE LITERALLY REPORT
YOU DIDN’T ACT LIKE YOU WERE
RAPED?
RAPED? WHAT IS THAT?
>> I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT
MEANS BECAUSE I THOUGHT I WAS
ACTING -- WELL, HOWEVER I FELT I
WAS ACTING.
WAS ACTING. BUT THEY HAD WRITTEN SEVERAL
TIMES THAT I DIDN’T ACT LIKE A
RAPE VICTIM.
RAPE VICTIM. ONE OF THE POINTS AGAINST ME WAS
WHEN I WAS IN THE MP CAR GOING
TO THE STATION, THE MP STATION,
THE OFFICER WAS SPEAKING WITH ME
AND I SPOKE BACK TO HIM AND
APPARENTLY THAT WENT IN THE
REPORT.
REPORT. THAT WAS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO
DO.
DO. >> THE OFFICER WHO COMMITTED
THIS ACT AGAINST YOU SPOKE TO
YOU AND YOU RESPONDED?
>> NO, I WAS IN THE VEHICLE
GOING TO THE POLICE STATION, THE
MP STATION, AND JUST THE REGULAR
POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS TAKING
ME, JUST HAVING A CONVERSATION,
SMALL TALK.
SMALL TALK. AND I DID SMALL TALK BACK JUST
TO DROWN OUT THE NOISE IN MY
HEAD, JUST TO NORMALIZE FOR A
SECOND.
SECOND. AND THAT WENT INTO THE REPORT AS
ME NOT ACTING LIKE A RAPE
VICTIM.
VICTIM. I WASN’T HYSTERICAL OR INCAPABLE
OF TALKING OR WHATEVER IT IS
THAT THEY SAY A RAPE VICTIM IS
SUPPOSED TO BE.
>> THERE IS NO CRITERION FOR
WHAT A RAPE VICTIM IS SUPPOSED
TO BE.
TO BE. THERE’S SOMETHING ELSE YOU
WROTE.
WROTE. EVERY RAPE IN THE ARMY IS
UNREAL, UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY
BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT
ALMOST NO ONE WILL BELIEVE.
WHAT?
WHAT? >> YEAH, AND IT’S PERPETUATED
BOTH WITH MEN AND WOMEN.
I TALK IN THE OP-ED, ABOUT, EVEN
WHEN IT’S OTHER WOMEN.
THERE WAS ANOTHER WOMAN WHO WAS
RAPED AND I HAD HEARD ABOUT IT,
WE’RE BOTH WOMEN.
WE’RE BOTH RAPED.
YOU’D THINK WE’D GO TO EACH
OTHER AND TALK TO EACH OTHER AND
TRY TO FIND SOME KIND OF
SOLIDARITY.
SOLIDARITY. >> WHAT HAPPENED?
>> WE IGNORED EACH OTHER.
>> WHY?
>> WHY? >> IT’S EASIER TO BELIEVE WHAT
EVERYONE SAYS THAN TO COME UP
AND TALK TO THE PERSON AND FACE
WHAT’S HAPPENING IN SUCH A LARGE
NUMBERS.
NUMBERS. IT’S EASIER TO DEAL WITH YOUR
OWN TRAUMA THAN TO HAVE TO GO
AND TRY TO HELP SOMEBODY DEAL
WITH THEIRS.
WITH THEIRS. AND I DON’T THINK WE MEAN TO DO
THAT.
THAT. I DON’T THINK WE MEAN TO IGNORE
EACH OTHER, WHICH JUST MAKES US
WEAKER.
WEAKER. IT TAKES AWAY OUR STRENGTH, BUT
I THINK IT’S -- WE KNOW IF WE
GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT IT,
WE ONLY BECOME MORE OF A TARGET.
OH, LOOK AT THEM.
THE TWO RAPE VICTIMS ARE TALKING
TO EACH OTHER.
THEY’RE CONSPIRING.
THEY’RE CONSPIRING. YOU ARE SO AWARE OF WHAT
EVERYBODY SAYS TO YOU OR ABOUT
YOU AND YOU ARE SO AWARE OF YOUR
ACTIONS.
ACTIONS. >> WELL, RIGHT NOW A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT YOU AND
TO YOU, THANK YOU.
AND THERE IS NOTHING WEAK OR
WEAKER -- JUST THINK ABOUT THIS,
PLEASE.
PLEASE. SHE DIDN’T ACT LIKE A RAPE
VICTIM.
VICTIM. THAT IS A THOUGHT FELT IN
COMMUNITIES THAT SIMPLY