We are on the cusp of
what could be really
the biggest moment yet
or a series of the biggest moments yet
in the civil fraud trial
against Donald Trump,
where he has already been found liable
for fraud.
His children are due to testify
beginning tomorrow.
So first, take a look at your screen.
Donald Trump Jr takes the stand tomorrow.
Eric trump
expected to follow on thursday.
Donald Trump's
daughter, Ivanka is scheduled to testify
next week.
That's after the judge
denied her attempt to kind of fight
being called to the stand.
There seems that seems to be
maybe not over quite yet.
All right.
CNN's Prince Ingress,
who is usually outside the courthouse,
is actually here
with us on Saturday to describe the
the importance of what
we're about to see here.
Yeah.
I mean,
so this is the end of the testimony
for the New York attorney general's case.
So once we get through
all of this,
we'll start seeing the defense.
So these are big moments
not just for the people
who they are, but,
of course, for the case in general.
And essentially,
when we talk or when they question
the children,
the state is trying to connect the dots
from all the testimony that we have seen
in the last four weeks.
Of course, donald trump jr.
Eric Trump,
they are defendants in this case.
And their names
have been mentioned
quite a bit by witnesses,
whether it be through
emails, phone calls
or out of the mouths
of some of the witnesses
that have already taken the stand.
So the hope from the New York attorney
general's office is sort of connect
the dots,
figure out
what part did
they play in the possible or as you said,
the judge is already found liable
inflating the assets
to get better loans and, you know,
from banks and insurance policies.
So what part do they play?
Well, they answer these questions.
I mean, of course,
that's very unclear at the moment.
But we do know that the former president,
he expected to take the stand
the beginning of next week
is not going to be in the courtroom
this end of this week,
at least as of now.
That's what we're here for. His kids.
For his kids,
which is a little surprising.
But he has campaign events
and so they'll be taking the stand
to finish off this week.
And then we'll see more next week.
What is the deal with Yvonne?
She was removed as a codefendant,
tried to fight, being called to testify
that no, you have to testify
but yeah,
essentially the state is saying
here, listen,
she is not a defendant
in the case anymore,
but she still may have information
that might help their case
and she still collects money
and you know,
her rent is paid for by Trump
or she might still have some sort of part
to play in this
that we might be able
to get information from.
So they want
to tell her to take the stand.
The judge agreed with her
so she can still appeal.
And that's why
she's sort of up in the air
for next week.
And she would be the last person
to testify if she loses that appeal.
But we have not seen appeal just yet.
But if that happens, All right.
It's good to see you. All right.
Thank you so much.
And joining us now for more on
this is Caroline Police,
a federal and white collar
criminal defense attorney
and a lecturer in law
at Columbia Law School.
It's good to see you.
Caroline
why would the prosecutors
want to call the kids?
What do you see in this
Oh, well, first of all,
they're their defendants, Kate.
Second of all, you know,
as opposed to that first count
that we saw
being ruled on by Judge Anger,
on in
summary judgment,
the pervasive fraud that took place here,
these remaining
six counts
actually do require the state
to prove knowledge
and intent on the part of the defendants,
including Donald Trump.
So when these you know,
Eric and Don Junior get on the stand,
prosecutors are really going
to hit them hard
in terms of what they knew,
when they knew it,
their patterns and practices
in running the company.
You know, obviously,
the issue here
is, is their knowledge
of overvaluing and undervaluing assets
for the purposes
of obtaining loans
and insurance and things like that.
So I suspect we will see
a lot of documents
come in to be authenticated
really getting to the paper evidence
in this in this case.
So when you're talking about Eric Trump
and Donald Trump Jr,
who are listed as co-defendants here,
they could take the stand
and they could also,
you know, plead the Fifth.
They could also choose
not to answer questions,
but obviously in a civil trial
that can be used as a negative inference.
So what would you advise them
in this case?
As a defense lawyer, Caroline,
Great job, John, on your law one on one.
That's exactly right.
Typically, you know,
we think
taking the Fifth
cannot be used against you.
However, in a civil context, it
absolutely can.
You can get
what's known as a negative inference,
which is really, really bad.
Meaning the judge can in this case,
the judge
see there's no jury,
but the judge can assume
that what you said in answer to
those questions
would have been really bad.
I wouldn't recommend that
they take the Fifth.
I think, you know,
this ship has sort of sailed
in terms of potential criminal liable
in these charges.
We've we've seen sort of
a long drama play out in
in the United States
excuse me,
and the New York state's
attorney's office
with respect to criminal charges
around this.
I don't think they're
in any danger of that.
So I think it would behoove them
to answer
the questions truthfully and honestly.
But you never know.
We'll see what they do.
And also, again, not a jury trial.
This is a bench trial.
So you have the judge
that is it's going to be up to the judge
to be assessing the credibility
of these kind of final witnesses
coming to the stand.
And he's been pretty outspoken
to this point about
questioning the credibility,
questioning the credibility
of Donald Trump, at least in what regard?
What impact?
So it's up to him on this.
What impact does this or could
this have on the judge's
eventual decision?
When you have
you have co-defendants
the children of Donald Trump
coming in
to take the stand and speak out on this
Yeah, that's right, Kate.
Remember, there
there is no jury here
that in and of itself has been up.
There's been a whole sort of laundry
list of issues there.
The Trump team could have requested
to litigate the issue. They chose not to.
So they're stuck with Judge Anger
on your right.
Last week
he came out,
you know,
he made
no bones about saying
that he did not believe that Donald Trump
was a credible witness
who put him on the stand.
Remember,
he violated the court's gag order
with respect
to saying negative things
about his court clerk
and judge anger and said, look,
I don't believe you.
I essentially think you're lying
on the stand.
So, you know,
that's sort of a strike
against him already.
Anger on you, right.
Will be the one
assessing the credibility
of Don Junior, of Eric Trump.
So I think it doesn't bode
well that he's already
basically made a decision
that he doesn't believe
that Donald Trump is credible
and the final decision is in his hands
from police. And great to see you.
This will be a very interesting stretch
at this trial.
Let's bring in our legal analyst,
former Ambassador
Norm Eisen, to join us now.
Norm.
What does the attorney general's
team want to get out
of Donald Trump's children?
John A
wants to get out of
Donald Trump's children.
Additional admissions
that they engaged
in the falsification of business records,
issuing false financial statements
and insurance fraud
Now, they're not going to say, yes,
I did it.
But what he's going to do,
what the lawyers for the A.G.
are going to do
is confront them with the inexplicable
discrepancies in the valuation
of specific properties
ranging from Trump's
apartment to the Seven Springs estate
to 40 Wall Street, to show
that there was, in a nutshell, fraud
Nor can they avoid doing damage
to their dad
Well,
they're they're in a very tough spot
because the discrepancies
between these numbers
sometimes variations on these properties
of hundreds
of millions of dollars
in the internal records of the Trump
organization
put them just just in a corner.
On the one hand, if they tell the truth,
it appears
they'll be admitting to the wrongdoing.
On the other hand,
if they're not candid, they're exposed to
potential perjury.
If they take the Fifth
and that will count
against them in the case.
And all of this is happening
in front of a judge
who already had
a partial summary judgment
finding on the persistent
fraudulent behavior.
That's the first count of the complaint.
So it's an impossibly
difficult situation.
For the kids
and ultimately for Trump himself.
Again, you can see right there
on the calendar,
it spells out in visual detail
we are going to hear
from Donald Trump's children
as soon as tomorrow
from Trump himself
at the beginning of next week.
Now, in a jury trial, you can understand
the emotions that might be at play here
as a jury would see the children
of the defendant testify.
There's no jury here.
This is a judge.
So how does that change the situation?
Well, there's been controversy
about whether a jury
might have even been available or not.
Trump's lawyers
didn't ask for a one
that's the latest
in a series of moves
that have been questioned by his lawyers
over the years.
They say no
jury was available,
so they didn't mess up
You know, the the real audience
here is not just Judge and Gore
and who clearly has profound
doubts about the candor
of the Trump family.
He's made that clear already.
Whatever happens is going to be reviewed
on appeal.
And in particular, John the penalties,
which are in effect already up on appeal
and in the summary judgment
and in effect, a corporate death penalty.
So what's going to happen
is building the record
for appellate review.
I think the bottom line is
when you look at these papers,
it certainly appears
as the judge
found on partial summary judgment,
two sets of books,
you just can't do that.
So it's going to be
a very tough case up on appeal.
They're going to try to make it
a little less bad, a little less bad.
Not a goal and not a way to live life.
It's good to see a norm.
Thank you so much.
It all begins tomorrow.