- What do you do when your child says
schoolwork is pointless?
Let's talk about it.
(gentle music)
Welcome to The Simply Charlotte Mason Podcast,
I'm Sonya Shafer.
Today we want to discuss an important question
that one of our listeners gave us,
what do you do when your child says
schoolwork is pointless?
Here to help me with the discussion on this question
is my friend and co-worker, Laura Pitney.
Laura, good to have you with us again.
- Thank you for having me.
- Here's the question,
it's rather long, there's lots of pieces to it,
so give it your full attention.
- Okay, I'm ready.
- All right, here we go.
"My son thinks everything is pointless.
"Math is pointless.
"Writing is pointless.
"He can read but would rather be read to
"while he does something else.
"He's very active and doesn't like to sit still or be quiet.
"He gets angry quickly.
"He would prefer to be on electronics all day.
"I don't mind him using them for some things.
"I am planning to use documentaries and learning videos
"from various sources,
"but he just wants to do what he wants to do
"when he wants to do it.
"And if I suggest any other way,
"he thinks I don't care about him."
- That's a tough one.
- There's a lot of layers to that question.
So one thing that we haven't found out
is the age of the child, and that could have a big impact
on how we would give counsel, I think,
especially if the child is young,
you know, if he's not yet 10 years old
or not yet fluent in reading for himself
then you reading to him is what you should be doing.
- Correct, correct.
- And he doesn't have to sit still while you read to him.
- Right.
- Some kids process better when they're moving
as long as they're not distracting the other kids,
if there are other kids,
and they're not distracting themselves, let them move.
So if he is old enough that he is reading fluently
on his own, then that would be an issue
we could discuss also.
But the age has so much to do with it because
you want to, I don't have boys,
but my friends who have boys tell me that
it's especially important with boys
to paint the picture of
why they're doing what they're doing.
- Yeah, I think that gives them motivation
and understanding that lends in your favor
when you ask them to do something
or tell them to do something,
so I agree with that.
- So if he is old enough, how old would you say,
or a mature enough, age might not have any
big emphasis on this.
- I think you hit on the key point,
the maturity of the child.
We have a young boy in our co-op who's seven
and he is so quick with all the things,
and the discussions I can have with him are so deep.
And then you have another seven-year-old boy
or an 11-year-old boy, like my son
who you just have to approach differently.
So the age thing is hard in this question
first of all because we don't know the age,
but then there's so many variables
in this type of situation.
So for the mom to understand that maturity level
that their child is at in the situation
of this kind of attitude of "Everything is pointless."
You know, that's up to the mom
not necessarily a strict rule which we know.
- Yes, yeah, the mom knows the child best, absolutely.
So when we are thinking about this question
there's really a couple of areas that we could unpack.
One is life skills that the child is learning,
and the other is the heart issue
that needs to be dealt with.
So where should we start?
- Let's do life skills.
- Okay, all right, we'll start with life skills.
And painting that picture for the student
of the skills you're learning here do have a purpose,
it might not be even the exact application
that we're using them in,
for example, the child might not see any purpose to
looking at pictures, picture study,
but you can learn a lot of things in that
from that method that will help you
in your areas of interest.
Does that make sense?
- It does, my son's really into cars right now,
makes and models of cars.
So I've thought about him a few times
with the habits he's learned in art study
of that focused attention, noticing the details.
So when we're out and about, I mean, his thing is find
all the GTs that he can find anywhere
when we're in the car, he can spot them just
because this is what he's looking for.
And then he notices the different rims,
he notices even the shades of the color.
I mean, he is all about it,
so I see that skill that he's learned
in our picture study habit
transfer over to his detail of noticing details about cars
which has then translated into him wanting to draw them
or make models out of them.
So that would be a life skill
even though he may not understand the point of art study,
even though we've talked about it,
he has used that skill he's learned
in something he's interested in.
- That makes all kinds of sense, yeah.
- Whether he realizes it or not, it's a good thing.
- Well, and if the child is bringing up
this whole pointless thing
then maybe you should show him that,
"Okay, what you learned here,
do you see how you're using it here?"
And it's the same thing with history,
you're learning about other people
and the decisions they made
and the consequences that came of that
because you're going to have to make decisions too.
And so it's a whole lot less painful to learn
about the consequences through reading history
than through experiencing it for yourself.
So there are reasons for all of this.
One thing that came to my mind also is
it helps for the parent to have a purpose or a goal in mind.
And I did one for every school subject
when I first started homeschooling.
I had a speaker at a convention challenge us to do this,
to go through every school subject and come up with
what is the biblical goal for this school subject.
So for language arts, why do we have to learn
punctuation, capitalization? - Amen, why do we have to?
- Because the biblical goal I would had for my kids
was I want them to be able to accurately
and effectively communicate the gospel.
- That's a good goal.
- That's your biblical goal.
And if punctuation gets in the way of that clearly,
accurately explaining the gospel.
Because if things are punctuated incorrectly
it can completely change the whole meaning of the sentence.
So the goal is that they can accurately
and effectively communicate the gospel.
So you don't want misspellings.
You don't want bad punctuation.
You want to present something that is appealing to others
because it all goes back to who you represent, the Lord.
So if you go through every school subject
and come up, as a parent,
come up with a goal that "This is why we're doing this,
and it all funnels into here--"
- It gave you an anchor to know
what line to cross or not to cross with the pressure.
- Yes, where to push, "We've got to do this,"
and where to say, "You know, you're doing your best
and I'll take that," those types of things.
And when I say push, you know what I mean,
I don't mean push this kid to do what he can't do,
I mean teach them to do what they know they should do
even if they don't feel like it.
And that then starts talking about heart issues
and the Will which was part of this question,
it was a huge part.
This child wants to do what he wants to do
when he wants to do it,
bears your weak Will right there.
And I'm not bad mouthing this child
because we're all like that.
- Correct, I was just going to say
I know that's my attitude a lot of times,
"I just want to go to bed."
- Yeah, yeah, we want to do what we want to do
when we want to do it.
But part of our job as a parent is to help our children
grow strong enough to do what they know they should
even if they don't feel like it,
to do the hard things, to make those hard choices.
- Right, and it's hard when we cross that line
to try to help our children with their hearts
because we're sinful, they're sinful,
and to see how they're manipulating the situation
or to see how they kind of lay in some guilt,
I know that kind of falls under manipulation as well,
but yeah--
- Okay, the question when "You don't care about me
if you don't let me do what I want to do"
when the exact opposite is the case.
- Right, so to know the right responses to have
that's going to feed the right mindset.
So to know scripture that talks about
honoring your mother and father
and to do all things to the glory of God,
whether you feel like it
or whether you think I don't care about you,
"I'm doing this because I do care about you
"because I'm responsible to the Lord
"for how I parent you and teach you."
So just feeding them those positive words as to,
"My motivation is not to make your life miserable,
"I mean, maybe some of the times, but."
Our goal is to love and support them
and to help them succeed.
And so I find myself having to say that to my children
because I do feel like they cling to the
things they don't like,
especially with my older kids,
I find myself at least once a day saying,
"You know, I'm really not out to get you.
"This is my decision because I love you
"or I think this is best.
"And you just need to trust me.
"I'm not the bad guy here, I'm here because I love you
"and want to see you succeed."
I have to tell them that because it's so easy to get
bogged down with all the things I'm saying no to
or the things they don't like
and I'm making them do, so to speak, all those things.
So even to put it into words and to say it
and encourage them to help break that mindset of
"It's all pointless."
- Yeah, yeah.
And I think another part of that is
finding out what that child is interested in
and kindling that flame as much as you can.
I'm not saying instead of the schoolwork,
but like you said, your son's interested in cars,
well, you can take the skills you're learning in schoolwork
and apply them to that situation.
And you can encourage him in that endeavor,
in that interest.
One thing that raised a little flag
when we were reading this question is
she said he would like to spend all day on electronics.
- I mean, wouldn't we all? Give me some Hallmark movies
for the day or something.
- Bubble gum for the mind, yeah.
- It's definitely in us to want that.
- It is, it is, because it's the easy way.
And that's what a weak Will is, just take the easy way out,
do what I feel like doing instead of what I know I should.
So it really raised a flag because I just started reading
a book that is fascinating.
I haven't finished it yet but so far it's been so good.
It's by Gary Chapman who wrote "The Five Love Languages."
And it's called "Screen Kids."
Fascinating book, it has all the latest
scientific studies and documentation
of what video games and social media
does to our kids' brains,
and not just their brains
but how it can sabotage relationships with the parent
and sabotage developing this ability to do hard things
in real life, to live real life,
and how addictive it can be especially to little boys.
That was fascinating.
So I highly recommend that book, "Screen Kids"
we'll leave a link for everybody.
I think it would be good motivation
for, like you said, that anchor for us because
it's hard to be the bad guy all the time as a parent.
Like you said, "I'm making this choice because I love you."
But sometimes we start to want to take the easy way
out ourselves, don't we?
It's like, "Forget it, I'm just tired of fighting the fight.
"I just want to give up
"and take the easy way out" ourselves.
But we can't do that if we truly love our children.
- Right, I think it's real important too
to acknowledge the baby steps that are happening
because even though we may have this mindset
of "Everything is pointless," our children,
or we may have it too, (laughing)
- Some days, yeah.
- Whatever that mindset is,
and let's say today's the day where
we're going to try to make
the changes to where we're more positive
or we're going to explain the big picture
or we're going to work on those life skills
or the heart motivation,
to acknowledge those baby steps.
I'm the type of person that just wants it
to be fixed and done--
- Right now - Right now.
- Today is the day, everything's going to change.
- And I don't want to have to go back and revisit it,
I just want it to be done.
And so for me, it's the progress of it all,
not the perfection because I want the perfection.
And I think if I focus too much on that perfection
then I miss out on the relationship part
of those baby steps along the way.
So I say that as an encouragement because
different children, different moms
have different temperaments with this mindset
of "Things are pointless" or "Why are we doing this
or why can't I just do half of it
versus completing it a hundred percent?"
All those negative things,
it's easy to get bogged down on.
So I say that as an encouragement
so that it's the progress of overcoming daily struggles
and acknowledging those things that are changed
and are happening because they are there,
it's just easy to not see it
because we're waiting for that perfected end
of whatever we're looking for.
it's almost like managing the expectations.
- Yeah, we focus so much on what needs to be fixed.
And then when this little part of it actually
has an improvement, it's like,
"Okay, this needs to be fixed."
And we don't even pay any attention
to that little piece that we just threw away.
So if we can celebrate the wins
and if we can remember that giving our children what is best
is not always easy.
- It's so hard. (laughs) I want it to be easy.
- But what we are asking from our child
is the same as what we're putting on ourselves.
We want them to give their best effort even when it's hard,
and so we've got to model that too.
- And we can do it. - With the Lord's help.
- We can do it.
(laughs)
- Thanks.
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All of those links will be in the notes
along with links to that book called "Screen Kids"
that I mentioned.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
(gentle music)